[brasewel]

Quote:

 
Perhaps. But I've never been a believer in uber-expensive amps. Mid-fi amps I find can drive pretty much anything I need them to, and drive them well. Maybe not 100% Potential but 99%, maybe even just 95% is good enough in my book.
 
Attaining the highest potential has little to do with "better" equipment IMO. (and are we defining "better" as "more expensive?")
 
The important thing in my book is matching the sonic characteristics of the gear to get the best synergy. You can do that with a modest mid-fi setup.
 
 

I agree that synergy is the most important factor when it comes to sound. And better has nothing to do with more expensive, I never said that. Diminishing returns are evident in every aspect of life, not just amps and headphones. People pay a lot of money to attain that last 5 or 10%.
To you, a $1k amp might be uber-expensive while a $10k amp might be uber-expensive to me, this is very relative.
 

 

[Skylab]

It has always been this way in audio. There have been people that have believed that any well designed amplifiers operating within their performance limits (given the load they are driving) will sound identical. The are also people who are of the opinion that all DACs/CD players sound identical (assuming they were designed to be flat), as almost any CD player or DAC will measure completely flat in the audio range. And let's not even get started on cables.

Of course, there are also a very large number of people who hear significant difference with all of the above. The people who hear/believe there are no differences think the people who do are delusional and buying into hype via placebo. The people who hear the differences believe those who cannot are in denial or have untrained hearing,

It will always be this way. It's a pity that the two camps are so rude to each other on such regular basis. But one thing I have never understood is why the people who don't believe there are differences bother endlessly to try to convince the people who do believe there are that they are wrong. For people who think amps make no difference, what's the point in even discussing amps?

 

[oqvist]

Then there is also the level of difference. Some may not care about a 3 % "improvement". Those that say it doesn´t make a difference generally leave quite a bit of head room for no difference I believe. Only way I can explain all DACs sound the same for example. Yes my Ipod is quite neutral I will give it that.
 
I suppose in the description about an audiophile it means overly picky about sound quality. Since I can enjoy the LCD-2 out of an Ipod I guess I am not all that hardcore. But I surely can tell the difference between sources and amps or even cables

 

[Proglover]

 
Quote:

It has always been this way in audio. There have been people that have believed that any well designed amplifiers operating within their performance limits (given the load they are driving) will sound identical. The are also people who are of the opinion that all DACs/CD players sound identical (assuming they were designed to be flat), as almost any CD player or DAC will measure completely flat in the audio range. And let's not even get started on cables.

Of course, there are also a very large number of people who hear significant difference with all of the above. The people who hear/believe there are no differences think the people who do are delusional and buying into hype via placebo. The people who hear the differences believe those who cannot are in denial or have untrained hearing,

It will always be this way. It's a pity that the two camps are so rude to each other on such regular basis. But one thing I have never understood is why the people who don't believe there are differences bother endlessly to try to convince the people who do believe there are that they are wrong. For people who think amps make no difference, what's the point in even discussing amps?

 
You summed that up very nicely and complete, in 3 paragraphs

These discussions were, are and will be there, and they keep on repeating themselves here on head-fi. It's hard enough to discover were one personally stands in these discussions, and that should be a more of a goal then to influence another, there's practically no point in that.
 

 

[codeninja]

I can enjoy music out of apple earbuds. In fact, since I got this fancy headphones, my music tastes is changing accordingly. Everyone is right only partially.

 

[bbophead]

Audiophile equals Sharpener.
 
Non-Audiophile equals Leveler.
 
When I just want to listen to music, I'm a leveler.
 
When I get a wild hair, I'm a sharpener.
 
No disrespect.

 

[TobaccoRoad]

Quote:

It has always been this way in audio. There have been people that have believed that any well designed amplifiers operating within their performance limits (given the load they are driving) will sound identical. The are also people who are of the opinion that all DACs/CD players sound identical (assuming they were designed to be flat), as almost any CD player or DAC will measure completely flat in the audio range. And let's not even get started on cables.

Of course, there are also a very large number of people who hear significant difference with all of the above. The people who hear/believe there are no differences think the people who do are delusional and buying into hype via placebo. The people who hear the differences believe those who cannot are in denial or have untrained hearing,

It will always be this way. It's a pity that the two camps are so rude to each other on such regular basis. But one thing I have never understood is why the people who don't believe there are differences bother endlessly to try to convince the people who do believe there are that they are wrong. For people who think amps make no difference, what's the point in even discussing amps?

This reminds me of the A/B amp comparisons that was done couple months back where the tester found the differences subtle and entry level amps held their own. People who owned cheap amps were delighted at the results with "I told you so" like attitude, while people who owned expensive amps argued that the DAC tested wasn't high-end enough to scale with high-end amps. I still have no idea where I stand between the two groups. lol
 

 

[dagothur]

Personally, I'm of the persuasion that only DACs should change the sound, as that's their purpose.  My D7000 sounds almost identical to my m50s (I really wanted to believe my Denons were always superior) from my 120 gB Zune.  But, when they're both fed by my Nuforce, the D7000 blows it away.  An amp should serve the purpose of powering your audio equipment, not fiddling with the sound.  Excluding tubes, the warmth and dynamics of which are their main appeal.

 

[caracara08]

same arguments going on in multiple threads... fun.

 

[dagothur]

Quote:

same arguments going on in multiple threads... fun.

One of the great audio debates.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

I have a fiio and it drives the lcd-2's just as well as my b22 or m3 did, the e9 can easily put enough voltage and current into the lcd-2's (1w into 16Ω).
I think the problem here is that Alghazanth does not like the lcd-2's and people need to rationalize this by telling themselves it must be his amp, dac, cables, etc.
The lcd-2's are not the best load for an amplifier as they are fairly low sensitivity and low impedance but any half decent amp can easily power them.
 
People need to just start accepting that everyone has very different tastes and that if someone hates a certain pair of headphones an amp is not going to change that.
I personally found the d7000 to be lacking detail and have fairly poor prat, but it was overall a fairly nice headphone.

I suspect this too. If you look at the headphone selection guide on the front page Head-Fi just helped out with, in the high end section they say the LCD-2 as "designed to still sound great through an ipod or smartphone". Even though I recognize there are much better amps for it, reading about the signature now I know it's not for me, as I love the D7000 treble, and am quite confused why some reviews say the headphone is amazing for Metal.
 
The second part is absolutely true. People seem to take others' not liking a headphone way too personally. I own several $1000+ cans and I have a $250 can whose sound I prefer by miles, why is that offensive to people? Doesn't change anything for them, it's just my opinion. The D7000 lacks detail in the sense that the T1 or HD800 has a bit more transparency and resolution, and I don't know what prat is but I'm assuming it has something to do with attack, which the D7000's imo have perfect. I don't care if my T1 or HD800 reaches into the music 5% more, the D7K is just a joy to listen to and that's all that matters to me.
 

 

[Proglover]

Alghazanth, PRaT = Pace Rythm and Timing

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

One of the great audio debates.

one of the most pointless of debates.

 

[jackmccabe]

It seems you have pretty much found your perfect can.
 
On the subject of amp and dac's, the funny thing is that I heard a large difference between  dacs, amps, etc until I started doing proper ab comparisons.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

Alghazanth, PRaT = Pace Rythm and Timing

I see, thanks. No idea how you would measure that between two cans though.