[Alghazanth]

Quote:

It has always been this way in audio. There have been people that have believed that any well designed amplifiers operating within their performance limits (given the load they are driving) will sound identical. The are also people who are of the opinion that all DACs/CD players sound identical (assuming they were designed to be flat), as almost any CD player or DAC will measure completely flat in the audio range. And let's not even get started on cables.

Of course, there are also a very large number of people who hear significant difference with all of the above. The people who hear/believe there are no differences think the people who do are delusional and buying into hype via placebo. The people who hear the differences believe those who cannot are in denial or have untrained hearing,

It will always be this way. It's a pity that the two camps are so rude to each other on such regular basis. But one thing I have never understood is why the people who don't believe there are differences bother endlessly to try to convince the people who do believe there are that they are wrong. For people who think amps make no difference, what's the point in even discussing amps?

Summed up nicely. As for the bolded part, it's because a certain crowd here assumes that any time you dislike a headphone it is always because you don't have the right amp for them.Apparently some people take others' dislike of headphones very personally and refuse to believe one may not enjoy a headphone, but rather it their amp that is lacking. Then if you have a good amp, it's the DAC, then the cables, etc etc.
 
 

 

[jackmccabe]

Quote:

I see, thanks. No idea how you would measure that between two cans though.

Waterfall plot or a square wave graph.
Basically when I say prat I mean speed and generally headphones with a better transient response sound have better prat.
 

 

[JamesMcProgger]

Quote:

Alghazanth, PRaT = Pace Rythm and Timing

Ive been reading "PRaT" here and mostly over headfonia and even google it and nothing.
 
Thank you Master Pschy
 

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

Waterfall plot or a square wave graph.
Basically when I say prat I mean speed and generally headphones with a better transient response sound have better prat.
 

Yea speed... I don't find the D7000s lacking at all in that regard. They handle the fastest Tech Death I have flawlessly.
 

 

[dagothur]

Quote:

Yea speed... I don't find the D7000s lacking at all in that regard. They handle the fastest Tech Death I have flawlessly.
 

Dying Fetus and Hate Eternal are the end-all be-all tests for transience, IMHO.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

Dying Fetus and Hate Eternal are the end-all be-all tests for transience, IMHO.

 
Fleshgod Apocalypse is another

 

[tupac0306]

Question! D7000 or T1? Which one u prefer?

Yea speed... I don't find the D7000s lacking at all in that regard. They handle the fastest Tech Death I have flawlessly.
 

 

[Skylab]

Summed up nicely. As for the bolded part, it's because a certain crowd here assumes that any time you dislike a headphone it is always because you don't have the right amp for them.Apparently some people take others' dislike of headphones very personally and refuse to believe one may not enjoy a headphone, but rather it their amp that is lacking. Then if you have a good amp, it's the DAC, then the cables, etc etc.
 
 

Indeed, this particular phenomenon on head-fi has always irritated me greatly. While I believe that all components in the audio chain matter, and while I believe that some headphones will fare better with some upstream components than others, I find it both absurd and annoying when people will say "if you only heard them on amp X or with DAC Y then you would like them". Rubbish. If you don't like a certain headphone or speaker, unless you are playing it on something broken, then changing Amps or DACs isn't ever going to make you like them. I think if you already like a headphone, you can optimize components to like it BETTER, but if you don't like it, you don't like it . Everyone has different tastes.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

Question! D7000 or T1? Which one u prefer?


 

 

D7000 by far, so much more fun, engaging, and joyful for Metal.

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

D7000 by far, so much more fun, engaging, and joyful for Metal.

cuz everyone listens to metal?
 

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

Quote:

Summed up nicely. As for the bolded part, it's because a certain crowd here assumes that any time you dislike a headphone it is always because you don't have the right amp for them.Apparently some people take others' dislike of headphones very personally and refuse to believe one may not enjoy a headphone, but rather it their amp that is lacking. Then if you have a good amp, it's the DAC, then the cables, etc etc.
 
 

Indeed, this particular phenomenon on head-fi has always irritated me greatly. While I believe that all components in the audio chain matter, and while I believe that some headphones will fare better with some upstream components than others, I find it both absurd and annoying when people will say "if you only heard them on amp X or with DAC Y then you would like them". Rubbish. If you don't like a certain headphone or speaker, unless you are playing it on something broken, then changing Amps or DACs isn't ever going to make you like them. I think if you already like a headphone, you can optimize components to like it BETTER, but if you don't like it, you don't like it . Everyone has different tastes.

Exactly my friend. I got told that quite a bit with the HD650, I don't like them because I don't have a good enough amp etc.So I went ahead and tried them with 3 much more expensive amps, and I STILL did not enjoy them. And nobody had anything to say after that.
 
It's just absurd when someone doesn't enjoy a headphone's signature and others with different tastes chime in almost insulted by the fact that this person has different sonic preferences. It cannot be that they appreciate a different sound, no no no it must be the amp, the dac, the cables!
 
All of these components are for IMPROVING upon a sound you already like.
 
"I don't enjoy headphone X, the sound is too clinical and analytical for me. I prefer a more fun, colored sound."
"No you're wrong headphone X is amazing for everything, you just need to buy headphone amp A, DAC Q, and recable with cable G. Oh and do some modding. If you still don't like the sound, you must have bad ears."

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

cuz everyone listens to metal?
 

He asked me which one I prefer and I prefer the D7000 because Metal is my main genre. When did I say or even imply that everyone listens to Metal?

 

[Kees]

Quote:

It has always been this way in audio. There have been people that have believed that any well designed amplifiers operating within their performance limits (given the load they are driving) will sound identical. The are also people who are of the opinion that all DACs/CD players sound identical (assuming they were designed to be flat), as almost any CD player or DAC will measure completely flat in the audio range. And let's not even get started on cables.

Of course, there are also a very large number of people who hear significant difference with all of the above. The people who hear/believe there are no differences think the people who do are delusional and buying into hype via placebo. The people who hear the differences believe those who cannot are in denial or have untrained hearing,

It will always be this way. It's a pity that the two camps are so rude to each other on such regular basis. But one thing I have never understood is why the people who don't believe there are differences bother endlessly to try to convince the people who do believe there are that they are wrong. For people who think amps make no difference, what's the point in even discussing amps?

Amen.
It is perfectly understandable. Tin ears are feeling inadequate and they feel the need to reason their inadequacy away. Placebo is the perfect excuse.
 
 

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Quote:

Summed up nicely. As for the bolded part, it's because a certain crowd here assumes that any time you dislike a headphone it is always because you don't have the right amp for them.Apparently some people take others' dislike of headphones very personally and refuse to believe one may not enjoy a headphone, but rather it their amp that is lacking. Then if you have a good amp, it's the DAC, then the cables, etc etc.
 
 

Indeed, this particular phenomenon on head-fi has always irritated me greatly. While I believe that all components in the audio chain matter, and while I believe that some headphones will fare better with some upstream components than others, I find it both absurd and annoying when people will say "if you only heard them on amp X or with DAC Y then you would like them". Rubbish. If you don't like a certain headphone or speaker, unless you are playing it on something broken, then changing Amps or DACs isn't ever going to make you like them. I think if you already like a headphone, you can optimize components to like it BETTER, but if you don't like it, you don't like it . Everyone has different tastes.

I agree with you that some people take this way too far, but on the other hand there are examples of different combinations that really make a big difference (big to my ears).
I also think it wise to realise that you are never listening to the headphones, you are allways listening to the whole chain. It's the whole combination that makes the sound you're hearing, not just the headphones. 
 

 

[oqvist]

Quote:

I agree with you that some people take this way too far, but on the other hand there are examples of different combinations that really make a big difference (big to my ears).
I also think it wise to realise that you are never listening to the headphones, you are allways listening to the whole chain. It's the whole combination that makes the sound you're hearing, not just the headphones. 
 

Very true.