[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW So.. what DIYer out there wants to write a detailed guide and parts list ? Im to chicken to try this without detailed instructions.

See John Risch's DIY power filter instructions here:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/surge.htm
This is exactly the same type of thing as the Shunyata unit, with the addition of inductors for RFI filtering. If you don't want that (if you believe that inductors are evil or "choke" the sound), leave them out. If you want exactly the same thing as the Shunyata unit, referring to both web pages will make it easy to duplicate the Shunyata unit.

If you want an easy, premade PCB for this kind of power filter, go here:
http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=536
DIYcable also used to sell prebuilt metal enclosures, not sure if they still do. If you're interested in that sort of thing, email Kevin, the owner. They certainly stock all the rest of the parts you'll need, including Pass&Seymour outlets. If you insist on cryoed outlets, there are plenty of places that will sell those to you as well.

Quote:

Seriously though would it be illegal to copy this design and sell it? I don't understand all this overhead, why coudlent a DIYer build these things in his spare time with quality parts/workmanship and sell them on Ebay for oh, say 300$.

It is not illegal to reverse engineer and copy a design, but that's all I'm going to say on this matter. It's been discussed to death in many threads in the DIY forum and Head-Fi has a policy that forbids discussions of cloning commercial units in order not to irritate the sponsors. I'd suggest you not say anything more about this either, or this thread risks being closed.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW So.. what DIYer out there wants to write a detailed guide and parts list ? Im to chicken to try this without detailed instructions.

If you want to build a line conditioner [edit]as pointed out by Wodgy in the post above[/edit] or have balanced power, you could look at the Jon Risch DIY designs. These have a good reputation on audioasylum for instance. Link

If you want to go for a DIY kit, ServingInEcuador used to endorse the Transcendent Power Supply (over the Shunyata Hydra-8). It's not pretty but this unit will also give you balanced power like the more expensive Equitech and BPT models do. For a general faq on balanced power, link.

Or according to my personal audio guru, you can just take a 1kW transformer (a fairly simple one with one primary coil like the ones that convert 110V into 220V), turn it on and plug it into the same power strip where the rest of your rig is connected to (or any other outlet as long as it's in parallel with your audio rig). It will use up one or two watts idle power and apparently serves as a "Gleichstromsenke", which I don't know how to translate into English, perhaps something like "DC drain".

 

[ooheadsoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy "Far superior" is unlikely, especially since you haven't done a listening comparison between the guy's DIY version and the Shunyata version. Slightly superior, maybe, if you believe dunking outlets in liquid nitrogen improves their sound. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the Shunyata outlets aren't even cryoed.

My sentiments. "Far superior?"

 

[MikeW]

sounds like that blue circle thingy on audiogon, I was also intrigued by the Trancendant balanced power kit, but it's honestly not gonna be much cheaper then a 679$ BP-1, once you get a good power cord, and good power strip to plug into it. Niether the BPT1 or Trancendant seem to offer isolation either. It looks like if I want Isolation and Balanced power i'd have to get a BPT-3, or multiple balanced conditoners, or forgo the Balanced and get somthing like PS Audio UPC-200, APC H15, etc. I don't like the idea of transformers messing with audio though. I want transformerless Balanced power!

im honestly getting quite fatigued with this whole thing, im about ready to put names in a hat and draw

edit: thanks for the DIY links! im gonna look into that.
Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda Or according to my personal audio guru, you can just take a 1kW transformer (a fairly simple one with one primary coil like the ones that convert 110V into 220V), turn it on and plug it into the same power strip where the rest of your rig is connected to (or any other outlet as long as it's in parallel with your audio rig). It will use up one or two watts idle power and apparently serves as a "Gleichstromsenke", which I don't know how to translate into English, perhaps something like "DC drain".

 

[saint.panda]

I don't know the Blue Circle thing but I'll take a guess that it's more expensive than the $40-50 transformer. Once I have money again, I'll need to try this out myself. According to my acquaintance who, with friends (one of them owns a hifi store), tested a bunch of expensive power conditioners and regenerators, the transformer trick yielded one of the best results.

But perhaps you shouldn't worry too much about power. I think a source or amp upgrade would generate a more palpable impact.

 

[MikeW]

Source upgrade is on the way, and despite popular opinion around here, I have a feeling it will have no problem hanging with the likes of Bel Canto 2, Dac1, and DA10 ~ as for amp upgrade.. are you nuts? i just bought this last month. It's pretty high end too, don't let the millet aspect fool you, with the Headroom Home module, Dedicated Power Supply and Stepped Attenuator it's a serious amp.

 

[saint.panda]

Didn't mean to attack your gear. I only skimmed quickly through your profile and thought that a line conditioner would most likely cost more than the Analogue II dac or a Millet hybrid under normal circumstances.

 

[MikeW]

Yeah I agree with you on the Dac, it is a great value dac that i've enjoyed very much and it's definatly a bargain, but it's not in the same league with the rest of my gear. Wouldent it be funny if I like it over the incoming VDA2 hehe. I'd agree with you about the millet too if it was a standard 150$ DIY job, but it's a notch or two up from that, not that those are bad. I've been trying to "Finish" my system slowly, power is the last great bottleneck! or is it? who knows this audiophile insanity never stops.

 

[MikeW]

Hey check this out, it looks similiar.. wonder how it sounds. Check out the guts in the first link. Wouldent be surprized if it competes with the shunyata.. 299$ too, vs what is it ? 995 for the Hydra $ix

http://www.bluecircle.com/index.php?menu_id=2723

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/b...rcle_bc606.htm

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy "Far superior" is unlikely, especially since you haven't done a listening comparison between the guy's DIY version and the Shunyata version. Slightly superior, maybe, if you believe dunking outlets in liquid nitrogen improves their sound. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the Shunyata outlets aren't even cryoed.

If you read Venom product info differences are more than cryo treatment done in house at Shunyata, outlet is custom design for Shunyata not stock outlet.

My comment of "far superior" was referring to materials used and custom design of venom outlet not sound itself......but I do think venoms will sound better than stock hubbel outlets used in DIY from my experience using different wall outlets at home on dedicated audio circuit, outlets are an important part of passive conditioner design......

Agree with Todd R as to quality and effectiveness of Hydra 4 or 6 passive conditoners, but they are expensive for typical headphone set-up and sell for little discount used. Better option for many is probably PS Audio UPC200 for $300 used at Audiogon.

 

[Oski]

I don't know...this DIY vs. commercial product comparison is akin to going to a fine restaurant and complaining that the $40 entree you just ordered consisted of only $10 worth of ingredients.

The chef had to come up with the recipe and then it’s the level of preparation and presentation. Then they have to pay the rent and staff and…gads, even make a profit? Sure, if you can do it in your own kitchen, by all means do so.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd R I invited him to post a reply to this board explaining the questions asked in this thread. He said he may consider it, however he has already responded to a similar post at the Audio Asylum. You should read Grant's reply. He has explained what goes into making the products, and why the costs are where they're at. Regardless of the cost or what's inside it, it is one of the better PLC's I've ever owned.[/URL] TR

There doesn't seem to be any meaningful disagreement between anyone about the costs of manufacturing and price or about performance. Grant seems the less gracious in comment though with things like "but hey, why let what may or not be true stop you when your driven to expose and call a legitimate company's product descriptions "BS"." JerryS seems more fair ending his article with "I found that similar performance to a $700 manufactured product could be obtained for an expense of roughly $100 and some time and effort. The downside is that the "DIY Hydra" has a resale value of effectively zero.The well-reviewed - and deservedly so - Shunyata Hydra 4 will retain its value far better." If I'm being unfair in my selection of quotes, go pick your own.

Where's the offense to anyone who has encountered the acronym DIY before? Uh yeah, it's way less expensive. Stereophile pops the top and describes what's inside all the time; in the Feb 2006 issue Michael Fremer says of the Jasmine Audio LP2.0 MM/MC phono preamlifier "The LP2.0 appeared to be extremely well built-until I opened it up and looked inside. There's not much to the power-supply and preamp sections. Given what it costs to to build something like this in China, the Jasmine's $1500 price came as a shock. Ray Samuels Audio sells it's superbly built, outstanding-sounding Emmeline XR-2 phono preamp for $1050, and it's made in the US. Had the LP2.0 sounded very good, $1500 would have been a fair price, but the sound was just plain blah."

Of the seven reviews, available online including Stereophile's, of the Hydra boxes none looked inside. Or maybe they did but chose not to report?

It's all a tempest in a teapot for me as I know and am not offended by pricing. I know DIY is cheaper and especially I know I'm getting far greater value from amplifiers, sources and speakers than from interconnects and power conditioners. I have available to me DIY, Shunyata (I'm a user), writings from 10audio and Stereophile-life is good for this music lover.

 

[AlanY]

You guys are missing the point again. This isn't about DIY versus commercial products. (There is never any valid basis for price comparison between DIY and commercial products anyway, really.) The "shocking" thing for some people is that the Shunyata units are the same as the cheapest units from Monster and other commercial competitors, yet sell for much more because they have a funky name and are marketed towards audiophiles.

Another way of looking at it is this: the Shunyata unit is absolutely the simplest possible power conditioner, with just two capacitors and a varistor for surge protection. Yet it sells for a super-premium price, as if you're somehow getting something extraordinary, when in reality you could get the same thing at Radio Shack for $30. The selling price of the Shunyata gear rests almost entirely on marketing and perception, not construction relative to competitors or some other concrete measure.

The way I see it, if you like the idea of things like pixie dust-sprinkled "Venom outlets", by all means buy the Shunyata gear. The pride of owning such gadgets may be worth the extra several hundred dollars. If you're the type of person who prefers to buy on the basis of construction and equivalent performance, just buy the cheapest product from any number of commercial competitors. (And indeed, to get something equivalent to the Shunyata unit, you do have to buy the cheapest units from Monster and Radio Shack. Their higher end units have inductors and other additional, more expensive components.)

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY You guys are missing the point again.

OK radioshack guy. Thanks for lighting the true way.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth OK radioshack guy. Thanks for lighting the true way.

No problem, pixie-dust man.