[Skarecrow77]

 
Quote:

You can check out a track from William Orbit's My Oracle Lives Uptown in Linn's studio master format 24/44:
http://www.williamorbit.com/blog/wp-cont...024bit.zip
 
When you click on link it will start the download. It's in wav format.
 
There's also a comparison page for mp3 vs Linn studio master 24/96. The sample on the page is mp3, and there's a download in 24/96:
http://soundcloud.com/linnrecords/bheki-alyn-cosker-24bit-96khz-flac
 
I'm listening to the William Orbit track in studio master format and it sounds quite natural. There's an ease and delicacy and you just forget you're listening to digital.

I will try those out tonight.
 
Last night I tried out:
Guns N' Roses - Civil War
Goo Goo Doll - Iris
David Garret - Nothing Else Matters
Bach's Cello Suite No. 1
 
In no case was I (me) able to reliably ABX the original FLAC vs 128kbps CBR LAME MP3. In many cases I couldn't even hear a difference between A and B enough to even make it worth listening to X.
 
After awhile, my wife came over to see what I was doing. I had her try, and she was able to ABX Iris at 128kbps once, She says she could hear a lack of crispness on the 6 second 128kbps MP3 clip I was cycling at that point compared to the FLAC. I thought I could hear it after she mentioned it and I compared a few times, but I could not identify it reliably once I started testing vs X. Placebo effect at work? She says she could hear it so I thought I could too? I don't doubt that she heard it, but I wish I'd had her run a full ABX suite to prove it (had to leave for dinner with family at that point).
 
When we got back, I encoded a few more songs (Garret and Bach) and tried those out. I failed again to differentiate A from B before even considering X. She thought she might have heard a difference on Garret, but she failed ABXing. She was not able to ABX Bach at all. She didn't try G'n'R.
 
That's just 128kbps. wow.
 
Before you blame it on my gear, my setup is not modest. It's not top of the line anymore, but when I built it, it was pretty robust.
 
It's an EMU 1212m (regarded in it's time as having DACs comparable to CD players costing hundreds or even thousands more) into a Perreaux SHX-1 amp (Not so well known anymore. Street price of $300 on it. Slightly more powerful than a current Fiio E9, but beefier components I believe), these were connected to a set of Sennheiser HD-650s. Interconnects are Headphile Silver.
 
In the past, I have been able to ABX 128kbps of less mature codecs on this setup. My only explanation is that LAME 3.98.4 is just that good. I never got a chance to even get to -v2, let alone 320kbps. plain ole maligned 128kbps stumped me.
 
I will have to try more samples, but I'm impressed with what LAME can do nowadays.

 

[eggontoast]

 
Quote:

 
Last night I tried out:
Guns N' Roses - Civil War
Goo Goo Doll - Iris
David Garret - Nothing Else Matters
Bach's Cello Suite No. 1
 
In no case was I (me) able to reliably ABX the original FLAC vs 128kbps CBR LAME MP3. In many cases I couldn't even hear a difference between A and B enough to even make it worth listening to X.
 
After awhile, my wife came over to see what I was doing. I had her try, and she was able to ABX Iris at 128kbps once, She says she could hear a lack of crispness on the 6 second 128kbps MP3 clip I was cycling at that point compared to the FLAC. I thought I could hear it after she mentioned it and I compared a few times, but I could not identify it reliably once I started testing vs X. Placebo effect at work? She says she could hear it so I thought I could too? I don't doubt that she heard it, but I wish I'd had her run a full ABX suite to prove it (had to leave for dinner with family at that point).
 
When we got back, I encoded a few more songs (Garret and Bach) and tried those out. I failed again to differentiate A from B before even considering X. She thought she might have heard a difference on Garret, but she failed ABXing. She was not able to ABX Bach at all. She didn't try G'n'R.
 
That's just 128kbps. wow.
 
Before you blame it on my gear, my setup is not modest. It's not top of the line anymore, but when I built it, it was pretty robust.
 
It's an EMU 1212m (regarded in it's time as having DACs comparable to CD players costing hundreds or even thousands more) into a Perreaux SHX-1 amp (Not so well known anymore. Street price of $300 on it. Slightly more powerful than a current Fiio E9, but beefier components I believe), these were connected to a set of Sennheiser HD-650s. Interconnects are Headphile Silver.
 
In the past, I have been able to ABX 128kbps of less mature codecs on this setup. My only explanation is that LAME 3.98.4 is just that good. I never got a chance to even get to -v2, let alone 320kbps. plain ole maligned 128kbps stumped me.
 
I will have to try more samples, but I'm impressed with what LAME can do nowadays.

IMO I think you would have more luck with a different set of cans.

 

[Skarecrow77]

Quote:

IMO I think you would have more luck with a different set of cans.

 
I've got a set of Beyer DT880s on the way as soon as Amazon sees fit to actually ship the damn things (They've been sitting under status "shipping soon" for awhile now). I will certainly rerun these tests on those samples when the new cans come in, but I'm curious why you think the HD-650s are lacking? They don't have the high treble "sparkle" of the Beyers or grados, but they certainly are resolving and detailed.

 

[EddieE]

egg on tost,
On the tracks that you pased with your testing. What percentage chance that you weren't guessing did you get to?

 

[eggontoast]

I know that this is a mistake and I am going to regret posting this but this is a 320LAME Vs wave (I know we have been talking about FLAC but FLAC = wave).
 

 

[EddieE]

That's pretty interesting man, can you put the two files up on media share for me to try, and also let us know equipment used.

 

[Skarecrow77]

 
I don't know why you'd consider it a mistake Egg, that's all I've been looking for this whole thread from people who say they can tell the difference, proof of such. Obviously you can tell a difference quite well on that sample. I too would be interested in exactly where it was sourced from, or if possible the actual files.
 
Also, if you could note what it was you found that made the difference so we could look in similar places.

 

[EddieE]

[size=x-small]Yes I'd be interested in what gave it away for you as well so I can look out for it. [/size]
 
[size=x-small]Was it a specific error in the mp3 or an actual quality of the sound and could you describe either and let us know where in the track you took your sample from? [/size]
 
[size=x-small]Also - did the MP3 come from the WAV or were they separately encoded? And what type of mp3 is it? LAME?[/size]
 
[size=x-small]Sorry to bombard you with questions but I do want to see if I can repeat it.[/size]

 

[eervig]

Well, I'll be damned...
 
I've been in the lossless camp for some time. I avoided getting too much into the sound quality debate here, because the archival purposes for FLAC/ALAC are so rock solid...but I was certain I could discern a lossless file from a 320 kbps mp3, which is why I've stuck to it even at the expense of my iPod's storage space and battery life. 
 
But - over the last two days, I've used the Foobar ABX module to test myself on two tracks: Jerry Garcia and David Grisman's "Freight Train" (off their absurdly beautiful-sounding kids record "Not For Kids Only") and the jazz pianist Andrew Hill's "For Emilio" (from his album "Time Lines"). I was blown away by the results.
 
The placebo effect is pretty amazing, even in the test - when you are doing it, I think you have little choice but to take a stab at which of A or B is the superior sample, and your brain makes up the difference. But at least for me, personally, I was proven wrong on a roughly 50/50 basis when I tried to match them to the X and Y.
 
I have no idea if this would change on better equipment - mine is certainly not the best in the world - but it deflated my own personal anecdotal assurance, and I'm looking forward to more capacity and play time on my iPod now. (I'll never part with the lossless originals, because I don't keep CDs handy).
 
Thanks, folks.

 

[mikeaj]

I'm also interested in eggontoast's music samples and the answer to EddieE's questions.  It should be interesting.
 
Last night I tried a 192 kbps CBR LAME 3.98 vs. lossless ABX.  Result was 13/16 correct (about 1% guessing chance IIRC; didn't save the log), but I'm hardly the most trained or experienced to discern such things.  This was about my experience in my previous informal test without ABX, doing random track select in a playlist.  In those previous tests, I couldn't tell between VBR -V0 and the lossless.  I'll try a higher bitrate with ABX whenever I find the time and motivation.
 
My listening setup is fairly modest though:  just a $50 source into a AKG K601.  The source was measured in RMAA at 0.019% THD and 0.028% IMD+N while loaded with the K601, for what that's worth (and I assume the line-in and ADC are not as good as the DAC and headphone out on the device).

 

[TheDreamthinker]

One of my first threads "How much better is Apple lossless quality?". 
At the end i only learned to only believe myself with does stuff.
 
Do what you think is correct...thats all u can do.....
 
But you hear differently if u do blind testing.....my impression.
Many scientists also say blind-tests are not accurate
 

 

 

[eervig]

Quote:

One of my first threads "How much better is Apple lossless quality?". 
At the end i only learned to only believe myself with does stuff.
 
Do what you think is correct...thats all u can do.....
 
But you hear differently if u do blind testing.....my impression.
Many scientists also say blind-tests are not accurate

What scientists and how so? This is interesting.

 

[afinch1992]

Quote:

You can actually hear sub-20hz? I'm jealous. 

 
you can feel them with big bass phones or a sub

 

[TheDreamthinker]

i don't know
but i did a research once and there where quiet many golden ears, etc.

 

[swbf2cheater]

i wish android had a great flac player, a few say they play flac but i havent found any that really do :[