[Tilpo]

A lot of audiophile products dont have specs and graphs one would expect after reading from nwavguy.
I literally do not see them often at all on sites.
Yes time does have an effect, but does all the time in the world make a good product?

It makes for an expensive product.

The higher the costs of development, the higher the required retail price to break even.

 

[bowei006]

I was in a sense trying to make a point of FiiO. They release a few products every year. All in all from the believed start time of the E17 to finish, it was only what? Half a year and then another quarter to manufactur? Having no stock and getting sold out half a year after launch does make it a popular device and for $140 MSRP(selling for $200 in U.S and almost $300 USD in europe) it aint snake oil.

 

[Brooko]

Think we're wasting our time Rik.  Most of the people raising the questions have never heard the NFB-12, so they'll muddy the waters with insinuation (so typical on Head-fi unfortunately nowadays).
 
Bowei - I'll stand buy the recommendation - it's a good unit - especially for the price.
 
Unsubbed.

 

[stv014]

Quote:

I literally do not see them often at all on sites.

 
The question is why ? At best the manufacturer thinks it is not important for the potential consumer to know, at worst it is because the equipment/skills are lacking, or the measurements are bad and are better hidden from the public.
 
Quote:

Yes time does have an effect, but does all the time in the world make a good product?

 
Of course, it is quite possible for an incompetent designer to come up with a bad product even after a long time spent on trying to improve it. But is it not at least suspicious when a single person claims to come up with revolutionary discrete amplifier designs, releases them in a short time, and no detailed specs are available ?

 

[bowei006]

Thank you very much for all the posts Brooko!

@tilpo
So.... Can I start calling you Rik?

 

[bowei006]

So most products not designed by nwavguy and under $400 are snake oil now due to lack of measurements which at best mean the company belittles the consumer?

FiiO is snake oil for lack of graphs and measurements and short R&D.

I dont see graphs for the majority of sub $400 amps and dacs or combos

ush-Pull Open Back Circular Electrostatic Headphone
Frequency Response :5 - 42,000Hz
Electrostatic Capacitance :110pF (including cable)
Impedance :145k Ω (including cable, at 10kHz)
Sound Pressure Sensitivity :101dB / 100V r.m.s. 1 kHz
Maximum Sound Pressure :118dB / 400Hz
Bias Voltage :580V DC
Left & Right Identification
:"L" and "R" indicated on the arc assembly (inside head spring)
Left channel cable is marked with a solid Line. Right channel is marked with a dotted Line.
Ear Pads :Genuine Lamb Leather (direct skin contact), high-quality synthetic leather (surrounding portion)
Cable :Silver-coated 6N (99.9999%) OFC parallel 6-strand, low-capacity special wide cable, 2.5m full length
Weight :1lb without cable / 1.3lb with cable
 

No graphs for the STAX sr009. It must suck or Stax at best doesnt care for consumers knowing about them.

 

[Tilpo]

Thank you very much for all the posts Brooko!
@tilpo
So.... Can I start calling you Rik?

Please don't.
I think we're close enough as it is, panda-sama.

If ever I beat you, can I start calling you panda-kun?

 

[bowei006]

Anyway. Im still looking for more recomendations and not just loose arguments.

Haha why not Rik-chan?

I am Panda sama and that is final

 

[akiroz]

LOL, so have you decided on a Amp+DAC?
You might as well go with Obj2+ODAC for price/performance....
Re-shell it if you don't like how it looks. 

 

[Tilpo]

LOL, so have you decided on a Amp+DAC?
You might as well go with Obj2+ODAC for price/performance....
Re-shell it if you don't like how it looks. 

The thing is, that would cost more and still have less features.
For $300 or $350, that would have been ideal, but simply not possible within Panda-sama's budget.

 

[akiroz]

Quote:

Quote:

LOL, so have you decided on a Amp+DAC?
You might as well go with Obj2+ODAC for price/performance....
Re-shell it if you don't like how it looks. 

The thing is, that would cost more and still have less features.
For $300 or $350, that would have been ideal, but simply not possible within Panda-sama's budget.

...Really? TBH, My DIY Obj2 costed me around $200 Hong Kong Dollars which is like $25 USD 
But to be fair, I should mention I got my parts mainly from RS components which I get free shipping + 15% off, AND I already have most of the components at home (resistors) but they literally cost a penny nickel each... (1% metal film)

 

[kyuuketsuki]

Ok. So I don't have the NFB-12. I have it's (discontinued) sister the NFB-11. I can't speak to the audio quality of the NFB-12, but I can speak for the quality of audio-gd products. And I'm quite happy with the NFB-11. I now can blame currawong for making me save up for the HE-500s to go with it. Getting a good amp makes a difference.

You really should disregard any argument from anyone who had not heard the product they are speaking against. In fact, doing so is against the rules now if I recall correctly. Recommendations should be based on experiences of the product, not the company.

I would recommend the NFB-11, but that is a bit out of your price range and also discontinued. I can say this, I personally did not like the Fiio E17 when I briefly demoed it with my TMA-1 headphones. I can't blame my dislike on the amp though. The TMA-1s are already dark headphones and the warmness of the E17 just made the headphones sound too dark and veiled for my taste. In other words, for my headphones it brought out the worst in them. The NFB-11 doesn't do this due to a completely different DAC being used. Comparing to my quite horrible onboard dac it doesn't change the signature too much other than removing some darkness, but it adds detail that I hadn't heard before. This it does to a fault as I hear unwanted artifacts in the music (that my friend confirmed were there on his home system with a good onboard dac). I have replaced a lot of my collection since then. According to what I have heard, my headphones wouldn't match up with the NFB-12 either, but is also more forgiving in terms of artifacts.

 

[bowei006]

Thanks for the replies How much will you sell an O2 for b1o-kun?If you give me a good price ill look into it >_<

 

[bowei006]

Head fi is being writd and my comment isnt showing properly ? Here Thanks for the replies How much will you sell an O2 for b1o-kun?If you give me a good price ill look into it >_<

 

[Tilpo]

Way to up your post count.

Now I know how you got triple HS.