[tim0chan]

Can anyone comment or have auditioned the u4SE? Your insights would really help.

(This is the most that i can go in terms of budget so i won't even ask for u5 and above comparisons)

I have the u4se and I can say that these iems are one of the best in the price range, beating out the campfire audio Nova while it's on sale.
The sound stage is quite wide and can be further improved be installing the apex module and an aftermarket cable.
Sounds signature is balanced and neutral as compared to the u4
Bass can be very strong when called upon but plays very well with the mids and highs

 

[PinkyPowers]

I've been pondering...

Why did 64Audio tune their IEMs for high-impedance amps, instead of just making the IEMs themselves higher impedance? Isn't impedance matching preferable to simply tuning around such a massive imbalance?

Also, when I've plugged Angie (low impedance) into the Shanling M2 (high impedance) it grew darker. Wouldn't 64Audio have to tune the U12 brighter to compensate? Wouldn't that make the U12 crazy bright on low impedance DAPs?

This is confusing.

 

[Matte82]

They started out making their iem's for the live sound market. Where most most amps are "higher" impedance than audiofile gear. I wouldn't call them high impedance. Just compared to the 0-2 ohms audiofile gear goes for, they are higher in impedance. I actually look at it conversely and see audiofile amps as super low impedance.

Plus it's much easier for the user to add something like the buffer jack, than to find a way to decrease the impedance of the amp.

 

[linux4ever]

Also, when I've plugged Angie (low impedance) into the Shanling M2 (high impedance) it grew darker. Wouldn't 64Audio have to tune the U12 brighter to compensate? Wouldn't that make the U12 crazy bright on low impedance DAPs?

This is confusing.

What's the output impedance on shanling m2?

 

[PinkyPowers]

They started out making their iem's for the live sound market. Where most most amps are "higher" impedance than audiofile gear. I wouldn't call them high impedance. Just compared to the 0-2 ohms audiofile gear goes for, they are higher in impedance. I actually look at it conversely and see audiofile amps as super low impedance.

Plus it's much easier for the user to add something like the buffer jack, than to find a way to decrease the impedance of the amp.

You seem to be very confused about what I am talking about.

What's the output impedance on shanling m2?

A whopping 7 Ohms.

 

[Matte82]

You seem to be very confused about what I am talking about.
A whopping 7 Ohms.

How am I confused? I was explaining why 64 audio designed their in-ears with impedances that are common in live audio gear. And depending on how gear is designed, determines how it reacts to different impedances. Just because 64 audio gears gets a little brighter and loses a little low end, in no way means "company x's" gear will react the same way. Different gear can very well have opposite reactions to the same changes.

 

[PinkyPowers]

How am I confused? I was explaining why 64 audio designed their in-ears with impedances that are common in live audio gear. And depending on how gear is designed, determines how it reacts to different impedances. Just because 64 audio gears gets a little brighter and loses a little low end, in no way means "company x's" gear will react the same way. Different gear can very well have opposite reactions to the same changes.

I couldn't have written my original post unless I already knew they were designed for the wireless amp-packs used by live performers. So the fact you started your reply with that bit of info tells us you're not thinking clearly. The rest is like you lost in a dark room reciting poetry to your dead cat. My gradma did that. Only the room wasn't dark. She was blind. And it wasn't a cat. She had killed the mail man during one of her fits.

It's not your fault. I did say this is a pondersome query. I too am confused by 64Audio's design decisions.

 

[Matte82]

I normally think mostly cloudy to somewhat clear. But in this issue I am not confused. I completely understand 64 audio's design decisions. And the simplicity it takes to adjust for super low impedance gear. And the difficulty they would have making them sound correct for live sound people, if they designed them for audiophile gear, and then asked live sound people to lower the impedance of their gear.

 

[PinkyPowers]

Thats not what they did, though. They built it low impedance, which does not suit high impedance stage gear. So they "tuned" the IEM to compensate, which skews it for DAPs.

The obvious choice is to build the IEM with higher impedance. The tuning would be the same accross all devices.

 

[christopherogut]

(I'm not here to comment on the ongoing impedance war... though one day perhaps I will try to put together a post on how driver impedance curves, crossovers and their components, variable ESRs, output impedance, inductance, air resistance and load in multi-driver setups, and other variables can all contribute to the total concept of impedance and its effects on an audio system's response.)
 
... just dropping in to say we're almost ready to release a second apex module, the m15.
 
The apex m15 module features a combination of dual ambient ports (that are larger than the single hole in the m20) and modified internals to achieve -15dB isolation @ 350Hz (our standard measurement point) and an additional 4dB cut @ 20Hz as compared to the m20.  It works much like the B1 module to tame the bass of certain IEMs based on personal preference but is a better middle ground between bass attenuation and isolation.
 
Also, the m15 has a more linear attenuation curve at higher frequencies, allowing for some extra ambient bleed above 7kHz.  This presents a more natural attenuation at higher environmental volumes for those that are using the m15 with ear plugs or IEMs for hearing protection but still want a touch of higher frequency detail.
 
We will have some pairs with us at CanJam @ RMAF this weekend for anyone who's there and interested to try them out.
 
Thanks!

 

[Likeimthere]

(I'm not here to comment on the ongoing impedance war... though one day perhaps I will try to put together a post on how driver impedance curves, crossovers and their components, variable ESRs, output impedance, inductance, air resistance and load in multi-driver setups, and other variables can all contribute to the total concept of impedance and its effects on an audio system's response.)

... just dropping in to say we're almost ready to release a second apex module, the m15.

The apex m15 module features a combination of dual ambient ports (that are larger than the single hole in the m20) and modified internals to achieve -15dB isolation @ 350Hz (our standard measurement point) and an additional 4dB cut @ 20Hz as compared to the m20.  It works much like the B1 module to tame the bass of certain IEMs based on personal preference but is a better middle ground between bass attenuation and isolation.

Also, the m15 has a more linear attenuation curve at higher frequencies, allowing for some extra ambient bleed above 7kHz.  This presents a more natural attenuation at higher environmental volumes for those that are using the m15 with ear plugs or IEMs for hearing protection but still want a touch of higher frequency detail.

We will have some pairs with us at CanJam @ RMAF this weekend for anyone who's there and interested to try them out.

Thanks!

Aww man! Now this throws an even greater curveball on my A10/A12 complication... lol will this still be backward compatible?

 

[christopherogut]

will this still be backward compatible?

 
Yes.  Our apex modules will fit any A-Series or U-Series product that we've ever made or currently make.

 

[Ike1985]

Anyone have recommendation for cable upgrade in max-$300 range for my U12? I'm looking at a more comfortable cable without memory wire and as less microphonic as possible. I'm not a cable believer myself, but if I'll be happy to be proven wrong with cable that can open up U12 more. Thanks!

 
Open it up? Does it sound closed or dark to you?

 

[Ike1985]

Should be included with the A10/U10 IMO.

 
Especially the A12/U12.

 

[Ike1985]

I think you might actually find yourself dissapointed moving from the A6 to the 10 or 12. If the A12 and A10 met, fell in love, and had a beautiful baby, it would be the A6 (U6 in my case). I don't think the 6 sounds like the 12 or 10. I think it's more balanced sounding than either of them and for me, more enjoyable. I can see why people enjoy either the 12 or 10's, but I personally find the U6's to be better suited to my preferred sound signaure than either of them.

I found the A12's too dark with recessed treble (This includes using a silver cable, MAM's and B1 module), I find my new U10's to be a little hot in the treble and at times a bit fatigueing (despite using a copper cable and trying all modules - currently they have my MAM's in them). I am still breaking in the U10's so my opinion may continue to change and perhaps with more burn-in they will smooth out. I do prefer them over the 12's.

To me the U6 hit's the sweet spot, great bass without being overdone such that it get's congested, fantastic mids that are great with vocals, and treble that's just right. This is with a balanced silver Norne Therium and the G1 modules. Although they sound great with the stock cable as well. I highly recommend the G1 modules on them.

If it were me I would put some money into other parts of my rig versus the 12's or 10's.

I'll also add that with the U6's I can listen at lower volume levels while maintaining a nice balance among all frequencies and a nice full sound. With the 10's I have to turn up the volume higher to get a more balanced sound. Also, I don't need any buffer jacks with the U6 - they have less hiss than the 12's / 10's or U3's and they don't require a buffer jack to "fix" the sound signature. Also, the U3's sound nothing like the 6 or 12's. I really don't know why people group the U3's / U6's and U12's together. Probably because of the charts on the 64audio site. They really sound nothing alike.

By the way, the new Schiit Jotenheim sounds fantastic with the U6's if anyone is looking for a good desktop amp to use with IEM's.

 
I also find that the 12's is somewhat counterintuitive to the ADEL idea in that you need to crank it to get the high end and end up listening at lower volumes! bit of a contradiction if you ask me but the UEBJ helps a lot.