[VicAjax]

some people see the dancer spinning clockwise, some see it spinning counter-clockwise.

however, perception doesn't change the reality.

just sayin'.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbet /img/forum/go_quote.gif The fact that Head-fi doesn't allow DBT proves that audiophiles are scared of the truth.

actually what it proves is that prior to the restriction there were wars between the two camps due to DBT and Headfi got tired of it.

Rather than come out spitting maybe a question like "hey I can't figure out why don't we allow dbt" . manners my friend manners.
Since you did not click the sticky here is the reason as stated

Since we've seemingly been inundated lately with these discussions, I find it necessary to spell it out clearly and explicitly:

We do not engage in the discussion of double-blind testing (DBT) of cables on this site.

"We do this not because DBT is or is not an legitimate means for decision-making. Rather, in our experience we find that these discussions repeatedly break down rather quickly into nasty circular arguments by competing camps of true believers. We've come to the conclusion that there's no particularly worthwhile end to be served by this line of discussion, and as such we're asking that the membership not engage in it."

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riffer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fremer is a smart guy. I bet he pushed the numbers and figured out that his chances of a Type 1 error resulting in him getting the $1million are a lot greater than the odds of winning the lottery

Actually Michael Fremmer's rep as a reviewer would be tarnished if he fails the test. This is particularly true if he fails the test using some or all of his own gear. While 1 mill is alot of cash he risks not being seen as a leading "expert" in his field.

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riboge /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, it's really great. The hype and commotion of a high purse prize fight is just the perfect way to resolve this issue.

There will always be critics on both sides of the fence no matter what sort of testing is done. It would not make one bit of difference if it was a bona-fide independent research study done by MIT.

Most people arguing over this subject, in spite of their proclamations to the contrary, are here for the verbal melee and are much less interested in a search for "the truth," whatever that is.

--Jerome

 

[luidge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually Michael Fremmer's rep as a reviewer would be tarnished if he fails the test. This is particularly true if he fails the test using some or all of his own gear. While 1 mill is alot of cash he risks not being seen as a leading "expert" in his field.

Well that might send him back to reviewing gears other than cable and making him spend more time on other part of the setup, who know. But to me it is the cable manufacturer that might get pummel down if it fail down the test.

 

[Sarchi]

This thing is so fraught with potential problems. For one thing, I assume the same (physical) amp and speakers will be used. This means that for quick A/B they will have to hook it up to a switchbox. Which I doubt will happen, because that means another run of cable from amp to switchbox. And the question of the switchbox itself, effect on capacitance, etc. If they don't use a switchbox, it means they'll have to disconnect the amp and speakers every time a switchover happens. Which means powering the whole system off. Which means several minutes delay, associated warmup and more doubts.

I just don't see this going smoothly at all....plenty of room for either party to cry "foul" afterwards. Meantime, they'll both get tons of publicity for their web sites....maybe that's all either of them wanted. It bugs me that the guy who took the challenge is one of the big 'celebrities' in high end audio.

 

[bigshot]

Randi said that he intended to have someone physically switching the cables according to a random pattern, I assume behind some sort of barrier to not be seen.

See ya
Steve

 

[Chu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarchi /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thing is so fraught with potential problems . . . It bugs me that the guy who took the challenge is one of the big 'celebrities' in high end audio.

One of the reasons this test is so closely watched is that both parties design the test to meet both their specifications. If he truly is a 'celebrity' of high end audio I would assume that the community thinks he has the credentials to design a test that isn't shooting himself in the foot.

Really, let's hold off on all these types of posts until we see what (and if) the test they agree upon looks like.

 

[Sarchi]

I hear you Chu, but let's face it...the audio industry has consistently underestimated the intelligence of its' customer base. $7000 cables aren't meant for everyone, but while they exist there should be some kind of a technical pretext to justify them them.

I think we reserve the right to remain cynical about the business as a whole. And especially after the cables/magazine brouhaha of earlier this year.

I suppose Fremer does have the credentials to represent the subjectivists.

 

[OverlordXenu]

No matter the outcome, people will still believe in cables. If this reviewer fails the test, newbies who know nothing of the great cable debate will hopefully be swayed away from wasting their money on snake oil.

As Vonnegut said (through Newt), "See the cat? See the cradle?"

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif No matter the outcome, people will still believe in cables. If this reviewer fails the test, newbies who know nothing of the great cable debate will hopefully be swayed away from wasting their money on snake oil.

If what's his face does pass the test will you concede that one cable can sound perceivably different from another, or will you chalk it up to some flaw in the test?

In the spirit of fun I designed a T-shirt for you:

 

[OverlordXenu]

I'm pretty sure the test specifies better, and not different.

There's a t-shirt I made for you.

 

[Konig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riffer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fremer is a smart guy. I bet he pushed the numbers and figured out that his chances of a Type 1 error resulting in him getting the $1million are a lot greater than the odds of winning the lottery

dont u think his reputation actually costs more?

If im Fremer i would have accepted the challenge but ultimately disagreed with randi on test conditions to salvage some pride.

Frankly i dont see the issue with test location and equipment. Shouldnt the test be carried out at the same place where Fremer carried out his review of the product?

 

[goldenratiophi]

Speaker cable? I thought the original was a digital cable. Oh well, if it is indeed speaker cable, I'm even more interested!

 

[Chu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm pretty sure the test specifies better, and not different. There's a t-shirt I made for you.

I'm pretty sure you need to:

1. Read the article in the op
2. Read more about double blind tests in general

before you keep posting in this thread