The obvious answer is: Have both!


I rarely use the MZ-NH1 though, undoubtedly stylish though it is in a techie way. Functionally too compromised as a player compared to what else is out there, although it's my first choice as a recorder. The Mini gets all of my time.

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I don't really believe that any of the commonly used DAPs on this forum have inferior sound to one another (or at least that's what I'm trying to make myself believe), especially when considering that they're most often used in a portable environment. What I identify the most is each DAP's sound characteristic when used with lossless/uncompressed files. I've never used an iRiver so I can't say. I'm interested in trying one out, but haven't been able to find a store that will let me use it.

What I primarily mean by a clean sound is that there's no hiss whatsoever even with sensitive phones. I'm sure that this is true with many other players, the list isn't exclusive just to the iPod. I've had problems with other players since I tend to listen at very low volumes with rather sensitive headphones. Anyone listening at a higher volume will have no problem with the hiss.

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I bought the 900 cos I think its more practical, with the battery and the 3 line screen on the unit in case i cant be bothered with the remote and I love it, played with a G4 iPod a few hours ago and thought 'is this it?'

you didnt really cover the VPT in your review bangraman, what are your impressions of it?

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VPT?


It's my personal view that you have to own a machine (especially if it's a fundamentally different class of machine) to profess any real opinions of it. And 'is this it' is the case for an iPod in terms of features, but if listening to a variety of music on the move is your core requirement and you want your technology to get out of your way and just do what it's supposed to, then IMO the iPod has no direct competitors right now... and that's from owning (and not hurriedly evaluated during a return period) the Zen, JB3, iHP, Net MD, Hi-MD, and iAudio M3.

The iPod is the the only DAP I'd recommend to my mother. That's because the iPod + iTunes + iTMS is undeniably the easiset to use. Don't underestimate how complicated these things are for the average person who isn't immersed in technology like everyone on this board. I'm reminded of that every time I get a phone call from my Mom asking how to use her poorly intergrated digital camera/computer/software package. I wish Apple made digital cameras.

People download music? And pay for it?...
C'mon. Seriously. You're paying for ones and zeros magnatized onto a disk. I'd never do that. That's why I buy CDs instead of downloading stuff... after all, it's cool to have the work that the artist put out. Ones and zeros will never suffice for solid physical materials... that you can actually hold, and see.

I personally use different programs. I don't care that my player is "synced" up to my computer's programs, because what I use is already so easy to manipulate. As well, I use UMS capable players, so I can easily use it on mine, or any computer with a USB port.

I hated the iPod G3's scroll wheel... that thing was utter disgusting to use. The G4 poses a much improved wheel (Went to apple store, tried them both). Either that, or my fingers weren't greasy enough when I was using the G3. Everything was bose triports. Couldn't tell how bad they sounded as I can't wear headphones. Well, I can put them on, but it be useless... And I forgot to bring my other player to do comparasins with the iPod itself... oh well.

Why do I think iPods are so popular? Because people buy them without doing any significant research. They hear from friends, see ads, read reviews that tell only of how good it is, and of nothing else. All they find is evidence based on how much better iPods are compared to flash players. I don't know about the people specifically in your areas, but in mine, that's all people do (it's all "yadda yadda, flash sucks, iPod rules, yadda yadda... no one in my neighborhood goes to head-fi, why???). But granted, even so, they arn't wasting their money on a crappy player, as the iPod, even IMO, is a pretty good player. And no, I don't like the super white Digitally Atrocious Princess either, but looks are not something that will go towards the purchase of a player. Unless you like fondling it. But it just seems that people treat the iPod as a supreme being of DAP fetish, and as some sort of an oversized invitation card into something of a "cool people" society. I'm considering moving to a place with more sanity in its denizens.

Why am I not getting an iPod? Because I am not going to get something that everyone else has, and not when there's a player better tailored towards me. I find people who have different styles from everyone else much cooler than the rest. And unless you got the iPod specifically for it's hard specifications, and nothing else, it's a reflection upon yourself.

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very well put

BANGRAMAN - I meant the VPT acoustic engine, what do you make of it?

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Oh, yes, I should have known, sorry. I can sum it up in one word.


****.


Ah, the auto-censor. Um... how can I put it, it's not very good.

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As opposed to ones and zeroes etched on a disc as with CD?


My problem with download services is their bitrate at the moment. Given what I can do with downloaded data, I'm not that romantically attached to a CD... however, I do demand that the quality of downloads that I pay for be lossless, and that it be copied off a proper master.

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I think that most people here are more concerned with the quality of the music, rather than what is cool or what other people think about them and their possesions.

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Huh? You mean other than the fact that the karma is almost exactly the same weight and volume, more neutral (unless you call rolled off bass neutral), and the ipod is only more full featured if you consider a calendar to be a better audio feature than gapless playback.

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I get MP3 CD's off my mate in 320kbps

The most competant reason I've heard is that while most DAPs may sound 'better' (subjective) most people find the Apple UI the easiest.
People tend to get drawn to use what seems more familiar to them, even if the feature list is not that great ie mobile phones.
Also with Academic Discount it is almost too good to resist

.

Here's my perspective. I am well aware and have researched all DAP options. I have an iRiver iFP which i really liked, and have used a friend's IHP-140 for a period of time. I don't like the look of the iPod (though its grown on me now) as it seemed a bit pretend-posh. I still try to hide it as much as possible these days. I also don't like iTunes. So, why did i get an iPod?

Some people might find this hard to understand, but its not always about features. For me, its about doing what it can do, and doing it well. I just want to have on hand, a large selection of music, and i want to listen to it. I too think theres nothing else in the market which touches the iPod in the following areas:

- Size, portability, and build quality. It's still one of the best sized HD based players... with the exception of the iAudio M3. I would have considered that further, if not for the weaker feeling controls on the remote. Similarly with the IHP's remote. The thickness is the main thing that put me off the IHP, i simply can't put it in my pants pockets. I wish Rio and iRiver would make thinner HD players.

- Usability. This doesn't just mean how easy it is to use upon first picking up the machine. I have no problem with controls that require learning. But it means that you should be able to make it do something fast, and not have the control method hinder your usage.

eg, like having to press down on a joystick to select something (which i consider to be a very flawed control design, but its quite popular on the iRivers and alot of phones), you can easily mis-push at an angle and end up pushing the stick left/right/up/down instead. One of which could be cancel. Having to re-select and accidentally pressing cancel more than a few times, gets annoying, fast. Or the control panel on the iRiver... where pushing the stick "left" and "right", moves the selection up and down the list. Pushing up/down however, expands and contracts a tree. That's just plain counter-intuitive, and it gets to me everytime where i just give up on making whatever control panel changes i was originally after.

The touch-wheel on the iPod _is_ the best browsing/selection method on these small devices. This was important to me when you realize you're gonna have 20-40GB of files to dig through. I dont care so much on the flash based players with less than a gig, im happy to browse that with a joystick etc. The touchwheel allows you to control the scrolling speed with good sensitivity with the most natural/minimal movement (thumbing around a wheel is faster than having to push something up/down). The new Zen tries to mimic this with what seems at first, a more intuitive idea of a touchpad that you slide up and down on. But in practice, it means you have to keep taking you finger off the pad, moving it back down and then pushing it up again, and it doesn't work anywhere near as well.

There's still alot of flaws to the iPod... i want custom EQ, and a better one at that, which doesnt distort. The bass is also lacking (though KSC-35's + Treble Reducer EQ has solved that for me). Ogg support would be nice. Better battery life too. While the competition out there addresses these issues, they seem to have all fallen short on the first two things for a portable player (IMO), and are trying to sell by simply having a longer feature list - aka the mobile phone marketing technique.

So i hope that sheds some light from "the other camp" of ipod users...