[Rob Watts]

 

  Rob, Chord?  Will the Hugo 2 USB input require an active 5Vbus (flashing) to become activated, remain activated? 

 

Would like to know that too. If power is connected you would benefit from clean USB power line, otherwise not?

Yes it needs VBUS 5v connected. But it is very heavily RF filtered and just a flag to the FPGA - so the 5v can't have an influence on the SQ, so do not bother feeding "clean" lines to Hugo.

 

[halloweenman]

  Before replying I thought I would actually try out the two inputs - USB against optical - using my standard test tracks. This was with no charger on Hugo 2, and a modern Win 10 lap-top that was mains powered, but listening on headphones only - so there is no possibility of ground loops.
 
My lap-top (MSI) has optical out too, so I could compare optical to USB from the same source. The benefit of optical is it is completely galvanically isolated.
 
Comparing optical to USB, I struggled to hear any difference at all. Which was unusual, as USB normally sounds a tad bit brighter, but I could here no change in instrument separation, timbre or timing. Its possible that depth was a tiny bit better with optical, but that impression was only once on 4 switch-overs.  
 
So I thought maybe today was a bad day for listening, and tried listening between the initial version and my production version, which has production code. Immediately I could hear better depth, instrument separation and focus, and a less splashy SQ on difficult tracks, which are the SQ improvements I have wrought recently (with better measurements too).
 
So my conclusions are - don't bother with galvanic isolation when using headphones and modern lap-tops. It should help when using Hugo 2 as a DAC into a power amp though - I will try this out later.
 
So why is it less sensitive on the inputs than before? Well I think that is down to a number of things. For one, USB ground and VBUS is completely RF filtered now, and each digital input has its own PSU separately RF filtered, including the USB decoder. The DAC section is much more immune to noise than before, and much better isolated - I am getting crazy levels of measured cross-talk from one ch to the next - the separation is an astonishing 144 dB (I had to check this measurement figure a number of times with different units as I didn't believe the numbers), and that's a testament to the ground and power supply isolation and DAC noise immunity that I have put into Hugo 2. Also modern lap-tops are much more power efficient than before, so create less noise.
 
Oh and I have issued production code to Chord earlier this week, and the production units will be on show for the first time at Can-Jam Singapore.
 
Rob 

Thanks Rob, much appreciated. I'm actually using ATC active speakers (power amps built in). Are you saying galvanic isolation before the USB input could help in this setup?
 
If you have Hugo 2 plugged in 24/7 on charge at home will there be any noticeable degradation in sound quality as opposed to unplugged? I have to say I don't notice any difference when I leave my Hugo TT plugged in charging and when it is unplugged. Thanks again!

 

[dmance]

There have been some interesting posts on the DAVE forum regarding RW's digital amp in relation to Hugo2.  I just posted #7740.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/7740#post_13301249
 
Dan

 

[Rob Watts]

 

  Before replying I thought I would actually try out the two inputs - USB against optical - using my standard test tracks. This was with no charger on Hugo 2, and a modern Win 10 lap-top that was mains powered, but listening on headphones only - so there is no possibility of ground loops.
 
My lap-top (MSI) has optical out too, so I could compare optical to USB from the same source. The benefit of optical is it is completely galvanically isolated.
 
Comparing optical to USB, I struggled to hear any difference at all. Which was unusual, as USB normally sounds a tad bit brighter, but I could here no change in instrument separation, timbre or timing. Its possible that depth was a tiny bit better with optical, but that impression was only once on 4 switch-overs.  
 
So I thought maybe today was a bad day for listening, and tried listening between the initial version and my production version, which has production code. Immediately I could hear better depth, instrument separation and focus, and a less splashy SQ on difficult tracks, which are the SQ improvements I have wrought recently (with better measurements too).
 
So my conclusions are - don't bother with galvanic isolation when using headphones and modern lap-tops. It should help when using Hugo 2 as a DAC into a power amp though - I will try this out later.
 
So why is it less sensitive on the inputs than before? Well I think that is down to a number of things. For one, USB ground and VBUS is completely RF filtered now, and each digital input has its own PSU separately RF filtered, including the USB decoder. The DAC section is much more immune to noise than before, and much better isolated - I am getting crazy levels of measured cross-talk from one ch to the next - the separation is an astonishing 144 dB (I had to check this measurement figure a number of times with different units as I didn't believe the numbers), and that's a testament to the ground and power supply isolation and DAC noise immunity that I have put into Hugo 2. Also modern lap-tops are much more power efficient than before, so create less noise.
 
Oh and I have issued production code to Chord earlier this week, and the production units will be on show for the first time at Can-Jam Singapore.
 
Rob 

Thanks Rob, much appreciated. I'm actually using ATC active speakers (power amps built in). Are you saying galvanic isolation before the USB input could help in this setup?
 
If you have Hugo 2 plugged in 24/7 on charge at home will there be any noticeable degradation in sound quality as opposed to unplugged? I have to say I don't notice any difference when I leave my Hugo TT plugged in charging and when it is unplugged. Thanks again!

If it is connected to a power amp then galvanic isolation on the USB may help - it depends upon how noisy the source is - its very much YMWV. I must admit to being a bit thrown by USB against optical, as I did not expect the lack of difference in SQ.
 
When using the charger there is absolutely zero difference in measurements, and I can't reliably detect a SQ difference with it charging or not charging. 
 
Rob

 

[Miksu]

Yes it needs VBUS 5v connected. But it is very heavily RF filtered and just a flag to the FPGA - so the 5v can't have an influence on the SQ, so do not bother feeding "clean" lines to Hugo.

 


Thank you for the info. So with USB galvanic isolation is the best tweak to possibly make the sound better.

 

[halloweenman]

  If it is connected to a power amp then galvanic isolation on the USB may help - it depends upon how noisy the source is - its very much YMWV. I must admit to being a bit thrown by USB against optical, as I did not expect the lack of difference in SQ.
 
When using the charger there is absolutely zero difference in measurements, and I can't reliably detect a SQ difference with it charging or not charging. 
 
Rob

Thanks Rob, again very much appreciated. Please let us know your conclusions if you get around to comparing usb and optical when Hugo 2 is connected to your power amp and your msi laptop. it will be interesting to know if there will be any difference.

 

[EVOLVIST]

I've read about in this thread, but have not found the answer, so...
 
@Rob Watts is RCA output is still 1watt for the Hugo2 as it was with the Hugo? In the original Hugo thread people were talking driving non-powered speakers with Hugo. I simply wonder if anything has changed with the Hugo2.
 
Thanks much!

 

[Hooster]

  I've read about in this thread, but have not found the answer, so...
 
@Rob Watts is RCA output is still 1watt for the Hugo2 as it was with the Hugo? In the original Hugo thread people were talking driving non-powered speakers with Hugo. I simply wonder if anything has changed with the Hugo2.
 
Thanks much!

 
Isn't this a bit academic? Why would you want to drive non powered speakers with a Hugo? 

 

[EVOLVIST]

   
Isn't this a bit academic? Why would you want to drive non powered speakers with a Hugo? 

 
No. People have been driving high efficiency speakers with Hugo for years @ 8ohm. People are driving speakers with DAVE. The question is simply will one get more than 1 watt out of the Hugo2 RCAs. 

 

[Hooster]

   
No. People have been driving high efficiency speakers with Hugo for years @ 8ohm. People are driving speakers with DAVE. The question is simply will one get more than 1 watt out of the Hugo2 RCAs. 

 
Ok, it just sounds a bit on the masochistic side to have something like a DAVE and use it like that.

 

[JaZZ]

 

  No. People have been driving high efficiency speakers with Hugo for years @ 8ohm. People are driving speakers with DAVE. The question is simply will one get more than 1 watt out of the Hugo2 RCAs. 

 
Ok, it just sounds a bit on the masochistic side to have something like a DAVE and use it like that.

 
Why is it masochistic to enjoy music as lifelike and transparent as it gets! Yes, you sacrifice some dynamic headroom, but if you can live with that? From an opposite perspective one could call an approach using renounceable electronics components with their inherent signal corruption masochistic as well.
 
However, to each his and her own! If I were still into speakers, personally I would shy away from high-efficiency speakers, be it with horns or fullrange drivers. But that's just me.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Why is it masochistic to enjoy music as lifelike and transparent as it gets! Yes, you sacrifice some dynamic headroom, but if you can live with that? From an opposite perspective one could call an approach using renounceable electronics components with their inherent signal corruption masochistic as well.

However, to each his and her own! If I were still into speakers, personally I would shy away from high-efficiency speakers, be it with horns or fullrange drivers. But that's just me.

Yeah, I mean, you're probably going to get a roll off in the 17kHz to 20kHz range, but if you're like me, at 43, I'm lucky to hear up to 16kHz. Add a sub for bass extension and I don't imagine you're losing much.

After all, I think I quoted Rob from a 2014 interview,in the DAVE thread, that he had a goal of driving speakers straight from a DAC. That probably won't come to full fruition because of several advances Chord is working on in amp technology; still, really the question remains, how many Watts are we now getting out of Hugo2's RCA out? Is it variable like the DAVE?

 

[maxh22]

   
No. People have been driving high efficiency speakers with Hugo for years @ 8ohm. People are driving speakers with DAVE. The question is simply will one get more than 1 watt out of the Hugo2 RCAs. 

 
According to specs on the website, Hugo 2 outputs 1050 mw @ 8ohms. This was tested at 3V RMS which is the same amount of voltage the RCA's output. So it appears to be that Hugo 2 does output just over a watt @ 8ohms
 
http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugo-2/

 

[JaZZ]

 

Why is it masochistic to enjoy music as lifelike and transparent as it gets! Yes, you sacrifice some dynamic headroom, but if you can live with that? From an opposite perspective one could call an approach using renounceable electronics components with their inherent signal corruption masochistic as well.

However, to each his and her own! If I were still into speakers, personally I would shy away from high-efficiency speakers, be it with horns or fullrange drivers. But that's just me.

Yeah, I mean, you're probably going to get a roll off in the 17kHz to 20kHz range, but if you're like me, at 43, I'm lucky to hear up to 16kHz. Add a sub for bass extension and I don't imagine you're losing much.

After all, I think I quoted Rob from a 2014 interview,in the DAVE thread, that he had a goal of driving speakers straight from a DAC. That probably won't come to full fruition because of several advances Chord is working on in amp technology; still, really the question remains, how many Watts are we now getting out of Hugo2's RCA out? Is it variable like the DAVE?

 
It's certainly variable, as it's also a preamp, like the original Hugo. [Edited:] Yeah, maxh22 is right about the output power: 1025 mW with 1% harmonic distortion. Also, 740 mW at 33 ohms. So a 16 or 32 ohm speaker would be more ideal than an 8 ohm speaker.
 
My main concern with fullrange speakers is the narrow treble dispersion compared to the wider dispersion at lower frequencies up to spherical radiation in the bass. I can't stand this discrepancy. However, the inherent advantages of fullrange speakers are indisputable and unignorable (ironically sound dispersion also belongs to them).

 

[514077]

One thing I am trying to determine is if the new hugo2 can also play SACDs?

If you mean DSDs, then yes, natively, according to the specs quoted somewhere.  But, if you mean feeding an SACD player into the Hugo2, then I havv no idea.