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AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

Jun 23, 2016 at 12:19 AM Post #646 of 3,694
somestranger26 said:
  I know you said it's more noticeable with the RN, but do you notice a difference with a cheapo vs cerious on the RN alone?
 
In addition to the blue there's also a yellow "power conditioner optimized" which I purchased to use with my power regenerator. I'll put the red one on the DAC or the RN probably.
 
Also, I came across this interesting post in the CA thread that was linked. Could the SU-1 be a cheaper alternative to the Mutec for reclocking?
 
 
Click to expand...


I didn't know about the yellow version - thanks!
 
I did not try the RN with just a generic alone - without the Mutec.
 
But moving from the RN to the Mutec did make a very noticible difference.  Which kinda makes sense - it's the clock feeding the SPDIF to the DAC.  The other cable was a silver chord with Niobium plugs.
 
The SU-1 can be used as a Word Clk not as a SPDIF reclocker.  See the WC BNC output.  The Mutec MC-3+ USB is a very sophisicated clock - doubt the SU-1 could beat it.  I tried the Mutec as a Word Clock and it actually hurt the sound very slightly - the clocking in the RN is very good.  The Mutec is better as a SPDIF reclocker - I begged to buy the loaner after sending it back.  And did.
 
Back of the SU-1: It only has USB input - no SPDIF - so impossible to do SPDIF reclocking.  Not even sure it would work on the RN as a W Clock.

 
Jun 23, 2016 at 12:22 AM Post #647 of 3,694
soundsgoodtome said:
  After some dialogue in a PM, it seems the Schiit YGGY is to blame. Schiit was offering free service swaps for their BNC/RCA connections with improper impedance when you sent your DAC in for service. Perhaps it's time to contact the Schiit service dept to get proper impedance connections if you're getting into Rednet products. The Focusrite guys will probably want to hear this as well. Again this only applies on the Schiit Yggy

Attn: @Jason Stoddard 
Click to expand...


Holy Schiit!  Wow folks we found a bug in the Yggy.  Got to love this thread. 
bigsmile_face.gif

 
Out of spec SPDIF and BNC connectors - not encouraging.
angry_face.gif

 
Jun 23, 2016 at 12:30 AM Post #649 of 3,694
joelha said:
OK, I have to confess, I could use a little help here.

I have the Mutec MC-3+ USB but don't know how to set Dante controller to sync externally.

When I try to check the box for that option, it doesn't stay checked.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

Joel
Click to expand...

How do you want to use the Mutec as SPDIF reclocker (my rec) or Word Clock?  The set up is different.
 
joelha said:
  And, as long as I'm asking, extra credit for showing me how to properly set the Mutec as an external clock via a BNC cable.
 
Joel
Click to expand...

Easy on that one BNC from the Mutec Word Clock out to the RN Word Clock in.  Set clock source on RN to external.  The Mutec menu system is a PIA and to hard to explain in text.  A call to their custoer support would be advised.  I just messed with the menu and selector until W CLock int was lit on the Mutec.

 

 
Jun 23, 2016 at 12:34 AM Post #650 of 3,694
somestranger26 said:
  LOL. They claim that there's no difference in sound quality when the impedance mismatch is so bad some devices don't even work with it.
Click to expand...


That is pretty bad - maybe a note up on their website, in their snarky lilt - "if this super high tech DAC doesn't work, it's because we send them out with bad connectors".
 
Our UK friend JUST received his a day ago!  And this was found out how many months ago?
 
And the Schiit rep needed to pow-wow with Focusrite to 'diagnose' the problem.  That would have been an embarrassing meeting.
 
Imagine the FR engineers sneer and eye roll at the red faced Schiit rep.
rolleyes.gif
 
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 12:51 AM Post #653 of 3,694
rb2013 said:
I'd get the D16 too for that price difference. Crazy that pricing. Can I ask the Euro price for the D16?
Click to expand...


I did the calculation wrong, which is why I deleted the post.

It is actually the RN3 that is expensive compared to the USA.
The RN3 is EURO 1425 and the D16 is EURO 1600. So the difference is only EURO 175 (about $195).
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 12:57 AM Post #654 of 3,694
soundsgoodtome said:
After some dialogue in a PM, it seems the Schiit YGGY is to blame. Schiit was offering free service swaps for their BNC/RCA connections with improper impedance when you sent your DAC in for service. Perhaps it's time to contact the Schiit service dept to get proper impedance connections if you're getting into Rednet products. The Focusrite guys will probably want to hear this as well. Again this only applies on the Schiit Yggy


Attn: @Jason Stoddard
 
Click to expand...


It is actually unbeleivable that they used components with off-spec impedance in the first place, and in the Yggi, a device with that price.
For me it is telling for the sense of quality that company has.
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 12:59 AM Post #655 of 3,694
If you know the history of the 'bad' part that was used in the Jggy it was because the supplier substituted a non- 75Ω coax connector instead of the one spec'd.
It slipped thru because all of the parts were sent to the board house which then made up the boards and was only caught later on.
 
All new builds use the correct part and have done so for many months now.
 
JJ
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 4:02 AM Post #656 of 3,694

Update on RedNet > Yggdrasil direct via spdif failure by way of information summary referring to my post here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/555#post_12668123 and this reply: http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/555#post_12668224 ...
 
Known user instances of RedNet " DAC via spdif(coax/Phono=RCA) *OK*
User
 RedNet Source
 DAC
Iving
 D16 AES
 Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Soundsgoodtome/gefski
 REDNET 3
 Matrix Mini-i
Soundsgoodtome/gefski
 REDNET 3
 R2R
 
Known user instances of RedNet " DAC via spdif(coax/Phono=RCA) *null*
User
 RedNet Source
 DAC
Iving
 D16 AES
 Yggdrasil
Iving
 D16 AES
 Linn AV 5103
Soundsgoodtome/gefski
 REDNET 3
 Yggdrasil
 
Further instance of *Yggdrasil null* (but not GuMBy) via spdif where Source is D16 AES:
Matrix of D16 AES(/Gustard U12) " GuMBy/Yggdrasil [credit: "atomicbob"]
Where the Reclocker and next column are marked "none" it means the Source Transport connected directly to the DAC input. The final column, simply titled "works" indicates whether you will hear music or not.

GuMBy reads spdif from D16 AES *but Yggdrasil does not* confirmed by gldgate here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/645#post_12671773.
 
Re possible explantions:
 
Yggdrasil's successful reception of Pro and Consumer spdif [credit: "atomicbob"]
Here is another, highly regarded pro-audio interface *that works fine transporting SPDIF to the Yggdrasil* ... The SPDIF data stream has two sub-modes, one is for Professional audio use of the control word and the other is Consumer which has the copy restriction bit which prohibits copying of the SPDIF data stream.

Yggdrasil receives Pro *and* Consumer spdif OK albeit from a *non-RedNet source*. But in my less technical testing, a Cambridge DacMagic Plus works fine with the D16 AES whereas Yggdrasil does not - meaning that whatever the reading capabilities of the Yggdrasil, the Cambridge DacMagic Plus does it better.
 
Reportedly Yggdrasil has a history of difficulties around spdif BNC input: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/schiit-yggdrasil-best-digital-analogue-converter-available-24351/index18.html; see also http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/630#post_12671711.
 
We await the results of Focusrite UK's further bench tests on my D16 AES / Yggdrasil.
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 9:14 AM Post #657 of 3,694
jabbr said:
I did the calculation wrong, which is why I deleted the post.

It is actually the RN3 that is expensive compared to the USA.
The RN3 is EURO 1425 and the D16 is EURO 1600. So the difference is only EURO 175 (about $195).
Click to expand...


Thanks - so using today's Euro/$ interbank rate = RN3 $1622, RND16 $1821
 
I see why you would want to go with the D16.  I paid $800 for my RN3 - glad I live in the states
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 9:19 AM Post #658 of 3,694
johnjen said:
  If you know the history of the 'bad' part that was used in the Jggy it was because the supplier substituted a non- 75Ω coax connector instead of the one spec'd.
It slipped thru because all of the parts were sent to the board house which then made up the boards and was only caught later on.
 
All new builds use the correct part and have done so for many months now.
 
JJ
Click to expand...


So why did our UK friend just get a bad one this week - he bought it new?  Wouldn't a company with Schiit's reputation replace these on their totl DAC even if they were sitting in  a box in the warehouse.
 
At least add a big WARNING letter inside -"If your new DAC does not work - it's because of an out of spec part - contact us for a long wait and hassle to cross ship and we will fix it for you - thank you for your purchase".  Pretty cheesy
 
Jun 23, 2016 at 9:28 AM Post #660 of 3,694
iving said:
 
Update on RedNet > Yggdrasil direct via spdif failure by way of information summary referring to my post here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/555#post_12668123 and this reply: http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/555#post_12668224 ...
 
Known user instances of RedNet " DAC via spdif(coax/Phono=RCA) *OK*
User
 RedNet Source
 DAC
Iving
 D16 AES
 Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Soundsgoodtome/gefski
 REDNET 3
 Matrix Mini-i
Soundsgoodtome/gefski
 REDNET 3
 R2R
 
Known user instances of RedNet " DAC via spdif(coax/Phono=RCA) *null*
User
 RedNet Source
 DAC
Iving
 D16 AES
 Yggdrasil
Iving
 D16 AES
 Linn AV 5103
Soundsgoodtome/gefski
 REDNET 3
 Yggdrasil
 
Further instance of *Yggdrasil null* (but not GuMBy) via spdif where Source is D16 AES:
Matrix of D16 AES(/Gustard U12) " GuMBy/Yggdrasil [credit: "atomicbob"]
Where the Reclocker and next column are marked "none" it means the Source Transport connected directly to the DAC input. The final column, simply titled "works" indicates whether you will hear music or not.

GuMBy reads spdif from D16 AES *but Yggdrasil does not* confirmed by gldgate here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/645#post_12671773.
 
Re possible explantions:
 
Yggdrasil's successful reception of Pro and Consumer spdif [credit: "atomicbob"]
Here is another, highly regarded pro-audio interface *that works fine transporting SPDIF to the Yggdrasil* ... The SPDIF data stream has two sub-modes, one is for Professional audio use of the control word and the other is Consumer which has the copy restriction bit which prohibits copying of the SPDIF data stream.

Yggdrasil receives Pro *and* Consumer spdif OK albeit from a *non-RedNet source*. But in my less technical testing, a Cambridge DacMagic Plus works fine with the D16 AES whereas Yggdrasil does not - meaning that whatever the reading capabilities of the Yggdrasil, the Cambridge DacMagic Plus does it better.
 
Reportedly Yggdrasil has a history of difficulties around spdif BNC input: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/schiit-yggdrasil-best-digital-analogue-converter-available-24351/index18.html; see also http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio/630#post_12671711.
 
We await the results of Focusrite UK's further bench tests on my D16 AES / Yggdrasil.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that - and so sorry for your hassles.  But at least we know it's not the REDNET or Dante gear.
 
When you finally get the kinks worked out - it'll be worth it - trust me.

And good luck on the big vote today.  When do they announce the results?
 
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