AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio

albrecht said:

   
 
+1 for sure
 
To further clarify, - a noticeable improvement doesn't mean a dramatic improvement. I certainly agree with RB that you get more improvements with SPDIF, (and also) USB cables. Also, - I'm betting RedNet/Dante is much different than say and Aurender or a Aries. With the Aurender & Aries, one is streaming files & loading them up into cache. With some of these players, that don't cache, or have less RAM memory, - they may behave differently.
Take a look at the F-1, - it has built in Isolation & really good clocks: moreso than bandwidth, it's likely that there is some benefit garnered from isolating, but whether or not that benefit is worth it or even noticeable is contingent on both upstream & downstream equipment.
People are also noticing differences with different NAS PSUs. 
 
My downstairs neighbor came up to listen to Peter Gabriel the other night and asked if I could play the microRendu instead of the SACD, - I told him that we WERE listening to the microRendu..
 
He makes fun of me for running fiber, - yet, - that is part of what goes into the final result. If fiber doesn't make any difference than CAT6a with Rednet/Dante, - I'll be happy to throw it away and get rid of those 2 bloody annoying FMC power supplies, and dumb converter boxes....
Cheers,

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iving said:

 
Spoiler Alert!
 
Buying and experiencing the audiophile qualities of my D16 AES has been an arduous journey and it is not over. But I am glad to be on the road, and I may be counted as another RedNet fan very glad to be walking away from USB. I'll spare you the details of the whole saga; however, I want to post an aspect that may be informative.
 
Using spdif, my Linn DAC, integral in an AV5103, would NOT recognise the signal from the D16. Blank, Zilch, Nada
 
The same DAC's spdif input previously accepted output from a Gustard U12 with no issues.
 
A Cambridge DacMagic Plus from my second system worked: (i) between the D16 and the pre-amp without issues; and, (ii) as a daisy chain relay (it has both spdif in and out) between the D16 and the spdif input of the Linn DAC! It is as if the D16 speaks French only, the Linn DAC English only and the Cambridge both languages - able to act as translator too. Since the Linn speaks English only, the Gustard (unlike the D16) must output English (if not French too).
 
I could find no solution. I shared with friends on the thread via PM but we couldn't resolve. I thought the issue ("consumer" vs. "pro") discussed in this link possibly relevant - but I am told it is not the answer: http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/pro-consumer-s-pdif-standards-explained/.
 
I imagined the Linn's age - about 20 years - must account for the problem - even if only symptomatically.
 
I bought a £2,000 DAC to replace the Linn - retaining its function as a pre-amp - a job which it does very nicely. A brand new Schitt Yggdrasil arrived today.
 
Via spdif, it behaves exactly as the Linn in every respect! It does not recognise the D16!
 
Please assume I (with Focusrite UK's impressive and lengthy telephone support) have checked all connections, cables and settings on equipment and in fb2k, DVS, RedNet Control, Dante Controller.
 
Focusrite support were good enough to speak with Mark at Electromod. To the best of my understanding they are meeting tomorrow with an Yggy and a D16 to attempt to replicate/investigate.
 
There is an spdif conflict of some kind lurking - and nobody knows what it is as we go to press. Until we know the explanation, there is an unquantifiable probability that if you buy a RedNet unit intending to use spdif, it may not work with your DAC.
 
I will update when I have anything concrete and hope others will contribute helpfully. It is vital to know whether Yggys (or GuMBys for that matter) work with the D16; indeed, any RedNet via spdif. Is it a broader phenomenon - i.e., is anybody else having trouble getting their DAC to speak the same spdif language as any RedNet.
 
Meantime - even with a cheap, long mic XLR cable between D16 and Yggy I am listening on new musical horizons. The USB banshee has clicked her heels and gone. I was going to use AES anyway - and have a better cable coming. All the same, the spdif enigma needs putting to bed one way or another.

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iving said:

 
Spoiler Alert!
 
Buying and experiencing the audiophile qualities of my D16 AES has been an arduous journey and it is not over. But I am glad to be on the road, and I may be counted as another RedNet fan very glad to be walking away from USB. I'll spare you the details of the whole saga; however, I want to post an aspect that may be informative.
 
Using spdif, my Linn DAC, integral in an AV5103, would NOT recognise the signal from the D16. Blank, Zilch, Nada
 
The same DAC's spdif input previously accepted output from a Gustard U12 with no issues.
 
A Cambridge DacMagic Plus from my second system worked: (i) between the D16 and the pre-amp without issues; and, (ii) as a daisy chain relay (it has both spdif in and out) between the D16 and the spdif input of the Linn DAC! It is as if the D16 speaks French only, the Linn DAC English only and the Cambridge both languages - able to act as translator too. Since the Linn speaks English only, the Gustard (unlike the D16) must output English (if not French too).
 
I could find no solution. I shared with friends on the thread via PM but we couldn't resolve. I thought the issue ("consumer" vs. "pro") discussed in this link possibly relevant - but I am told it is not the answer: http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/pro-consumer-s-pdif-standards-explained/.
 
I imagined the Linn's age - about 20 years - must account for the problem - even if only symptomatically.
 
I bought a £2,000 DAC to replace the Linn - retaining its function as a pre-amp - a job which it does very nicely. A brand new Schitt Yggdrasil arrived today.
 
Via spdif, it behaves exactly as the Linn in every respect! It does not recognise the D16!
 
Please assume I (with Focusrite UK's impressive and lengthy telephone support) have checked all connections, cables and settings on equipment and in fb2k, DVS, RedNet Control, Dante Controller.
 
Focusrite support were good enough to speak with Mark at Electromod. To the best of my understanding they are meeting tomorrow with an Yggy and a D16 to attempt to replicate/investigate.
 
There is an spdif conflict of some kind lurking - and nobody knows what it is as we go to press. Until we know the explanation, there is an unquantifiable probability that if you buy a RedNet unit intending to use spdif, it may not work with your DAC.
 
I will update when I have anything concrete and hope others will contribute helpfully. It is vital to know whether Yggys (or GuMBys for that matter) work with the D16; indeed, any RedNet via spdif. Is it a broader phenomenon - i.e., is anybody else having trouble getting their DAC to speak the same spdif language as any RedNet.
 
Meantime - even with a cheap, long mic XLR cable between D16 and Yggy I am listening on new musical horizons. The USB banshee has clicked her heels and gone. I was going to use AES anyway - and have a better cable coming. All the same, the spdif enigma needs putting to bed one way or another.

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rb2013 said:

  OK just swapped DACs - using my heavily DIY modded DAC60 in the main listening room.  All I have to say is
 
OMfreakingG!!!  Unbelievable the sound I just heard!
 
Not only did the DAC60 work - it just blew my $7k APL out of the water!
 
The bass at least a half octave lower - perfect pitch.  Amazingly more detail then the APL - and the vocal tonality!   Well thanks @Iving for your post - I'm just floored.
 
Now the DAC60 can only do 96k but being fed by the Mutec MC-3+ USB spdif reclocker and the RN3 jaw dropping!
 
So I guess the APL is going to the second string bench in the office.  The main room has a new DAC champion.  I had compared the two back when I did the final coupling cap upgrade a yr ago - the final version using the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil caps.  Back then the DAC60 was very close.  Those caps need 500-1000 hours to fully burnin.
 
Momma Mia - have they ever!  The R2R PCM1704UK just landed a knock out blow to the 32-bit SDM AKM's and that's with 6 per channel!
 
I know this doesn't help your issue - but at least you know the RN3 and an older DAC work great over SPDIF coax.
 
Anybody want a killer source for under $4k REDNET 3>Mutec MC-3+ USB> DAC60 (with about a $1000 in DIY upgrades)!
I might just drag this package to one of those meets and blow everybody away.
 
Before:


After:

 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project
 
I may have a W4S Remedy reclocker going up for sale.

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iving said:

 
Spoiler Alert!
 
  Using spdif, my Linn DAC, integral in an AV5103, would NOT recognise the signal from the D16. Blank, Zilch, Nada
 
The same DAC's spdif input previously accepted output from a Gustard U12 with no issues.
 
A Cambridge DacMagic Plus from my second system worked: (i) between the D16 and the pre-amp without issues; and, (ii) as a daisy chain relay (it has both spdif in and out) between the D16 and the spdif input of the Linn DAC! It is as if the D16 speaks French only, the Linn DAC English only and the Cambridge both languages - able to act as translator too. Since the Linn speaks English only, the Gustard (unlike the D16) must output English (if not French too).
 
I could find no solution. I shared with friends on the thread via PM but we couldn't resolve. I thought the issue ("consumer" vs. "pro") discussed in this link possibly relevant - but I am told it is not the answer: http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/pro-consumer-s-pdif-standards-explained/.
 
I imagined the Linn's age - about 20 years - must account for the problem - even if only symptomatically.
 
I bought a £2,000 DAC to replace the Linn - retaining its function as a pre-amp - a job which it does very nicely. A brand new Schitt Yggdrasil arrived today.
 
Via spdif, it behaves exactly as the Linn in every respect! It does not recognise the D16!
 
Please assume I (with Focusrite UK's impressive and lengthy telephone support) have checked all connections, cables and settings on equipment and in fb2k, DVS, RedNet Control, Dante Controller.
 
Focusrite support were good enough to speak with Mark at Electromod. To the best of my understanding they are meeting tomorrow with an Yggy and a D16 to attempt to replicate/investigate.
 
There is an spdif conflict of some kind lurking - and nobody knows what it is as we go to press. Until we know the explanation, there is an unquantifiable probability that if you buy a RedNet unit intending to use spdif, it may not work with your DAC.
 
I will update when I have anything concrete and hope others will contribute helpfully. It is vital to know whether Yggys (or GuMBys for that matter) work with the D16; indeed, any RedNet via spdif. Is it a broader phenomenon - i.e., is anybody else having trouble getting their DAC to speak the same spdif language as any RedNet.
 
Meantime - even with a cheap, long mic XLR cable between D16 and Yggy I am listening on new musical horizons. The USB banshee has clicked her heels and gone. I was going to use AES anyway - and have a better cable coming. All the same, the spdif enigma needs putting to bed one way or another.

Click to expand...

sbgk said:

  the emf from the transformers will still be having an effect on the sq, have you tried it with them out of the box, looks like the leads are long enough.

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soundsgoodtome said:

 
Hi Iving, you are not alone. During our Bellingham meet last Saturday the same thing has occurred with @gefski's YGGY. Luckily by sheer luck (and the fact that the Optical Outputs do not work with our SPDIF Optical) I opted to bring my Matrix Mini-i which also has a spdif RCA pass-through. It worked with the pass through but later in the day we wanted to see what the Yggy could do plugged directly into the R3 and after multiple cable swaps we could not get the Yggy to see the signal but other DACs (including my R2R I had in the car and my Matrix Mini-i) would.

I will PM you directly to make sure we're on the same page with what Focusrite comes up with. @gefski will want to be getting in on a Rednet 3 during fall so the solution to this is needed here as well.

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rb2013 said:

 
+1 

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Originally Posted by rb2013 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I love the DAC60- true tube output (not just a opamp with tube buffer), R2R PCM1704UK DACs.  It needed a lot of component swapping (see my thread).

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johnjen said:

  So I'm at 60hrs on my RN3 and the SQ has taken a significant step up.
It's still changing and I have very little idea of how much time it will take to reach its full peak and remain there.
 
The difference between my 2-Wyrd setup and the RN3 is increasing, but at this time it isn't a knock you over the head huge difference but the gap is widening.

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soundsgoodtome said:

 
Hi Iving, you are not alone. During our Bellingham meet last Saturday the same thing has occurred with @gefski's YGGY. Luckily by sheer luck (and the fact that the Optical Outputs do not work with our SPDIF Optical) I opted to bring my Matrix Mini-i which also has a spdif RCA pass-through. It worked with the pass through but later in the day we wanted to see what the Yggy could do plugged directly into the R3 and after multiple cable swaps we could not get the Yggy to see the signal but other DACs (including my R2R I had in the car and my Matrix Mini-i) would.

I will PM you directly to make sure we're on the same page with what Focusrite comes up with. @gefski will want to be getting in on a Rednet 3 during fall so the solution to this is needed here as well.

Click to expand...

rb2013 said:

 
The optical ins/outs are ADAT not SPDIF unfortunately.
 
Wonder if the Gumby MB has the same issue.

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iving said:

   
Thank you! That is a breakthrough. I will collate any other such relevant info and forward it to Focusrite/Electromod (schitt.eu) to help them with their investigation. Also I will respond to any PM.

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somestranger26 said:

   
There is an actual +1 button (thumbs up next to Multi, Quote, and Reply). Posts with just a +1 like this make the thread harder to read.
 
Those are PCM1704, not PCM1704UK. The UK version would be able to take 192kHz input, like the ones in my Audio-GD Master 11 DAC.
 
Pretty much my thoughts on the RN3. It's a step above my USB chain but I'm not as blown away as rb2013 (yet, hopefully).

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Premier League ​

1. Aqua Hifi La Scala MKII

Division 1​

1. Chord Hugo TT
2. PS Audio DirectStream
3. Resonessence Labs INVICTA Mirus

Division 2​

1. Aqua La Voce S2
2. Audio-gd Reference 7.1  – [discontinued]
3. AURALiC Vega
4. Chord Hugo
5. Chord Mojo
6. Metrum Acoustics “Hex”
7. PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MKII
8. Schiit Gungnir Multibit
9. WLM Gamma

Division 3​

1. AudioQuest DragonFly Red
2. Anedio D1 [discontinued]
3. Audio-gd  Reference 10.2
4. db Audio Labs Tranquility SE
5. Eastern Electric MiniMax [discontinued]
6. Lenehan Audio (Base Level) PDX
7. Lite DAC-83
8. Metrum Acoustics “Octave”
9. Mytek Stereo192-DSD
10. Peachtree iNova [discontinued]
11. PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MKI  [discontinued]
12. Red Wine Audio Isabellina LFP-V Edition
13. Schiit Bifrost Multibit
14. Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2

Division 4​

1. AudioQuest DragonFly Black
2. John Kenny JKDAC32
3. MHDT Labs Balanced Havana
4. Resonessence Labs Concero
5. Resonessence Labs Concero HD
6. Resonessence Labs Concero HP
7. Schiit Bifrost Uber w/ Gen 2 USB

 

Division 5​

1. Astell&Kern AK120 as USB DAC
2. AudioQuest Dragonfly v1.2
3. Audio-gd NFB-2 [discontinued]
4. Audio-gd NFB-2.1 [discontinued]
5. Bel Canto DAC-3 [discontinued]
6. Bladelius USB DAC
7. CEntrance DACMiniPX
8. John Kenny JKDAC Sabre  [discontinued]
9. Lavry DA-10
10. LH Labs Geek Out 1W
11. Micromega MyDAC
12. Peachtree iDecco [discontinued]
13. Peachtree DAC*iT
14. Rega DAC
15. Resonessence Labs Herus
16. Schiit Bifrost v1
17. Stello DA100

​

Division 6​

1. Audio-gd NFB-3 [discontinued]
2. Beresford Caiman Gatorized
3. Beresford Bushmaster
4. Bel Canto DAC-1.5
5. CEntrance DACPort
6. Essence HDACC HDMI
7. Emotiva XDA-1 [discontinued]
8. Heed Dactilus w/ Q-PSU
9. HRT microStreamer
10. MHDT Labs Havana
11. Schiit Modi
12. TeraDak Chameleon

 

And the rest…​

1. Arcam rDAC
2. Audio-gd NFB-12 [discontinued]
3. Beresford 7510
4. Beresford 7520
5. Beresford Caiman
6. Calyx Coffee
7. Cambridge Audio DacMagic
8. Citypulse DA7.2x
9. Emotiva XDA-2
10. Firestone Audio Spitfire MK1 [discontinued]
11. HRT Music Streamer II+
12. KingRex UD384 + UPower
13. Devilsound USB DAC
14. Lite DAC-AH
15. Lite DAC-68
16. Maverick Tube Magic D1
17. MHDT Labs Paradisea [discontinued]
18. NAD Wireless USB DAC 1
19. Pro-ject DAC Box USB
20. Pro-ject DAC Box FL
21. Valab NOS DAC
22. Violectric V800
23. Xindak DAC5

---

 ​

USB-S/PDIF converters, S/PDIF re-clockers, USB filters and USB re-clockers:​

Premier League​

1. Sonicweld Diverter 24/96
2. Empirical Audio Off-Ramp
3. Audiophilleo w/ Pure Power

Division 1​

1. Empirical Audio Synchro-Mesh
2. UpTone Regen
3. Wyred4Sound Recovery
4. Wyred4Sound Remedy

Division 2​

1. Audiophilleo 1
2. Audiophilleo 2
3. John Kenny JKSPDIF MK2 and MK3
4. Resonessence Labs Concero
5. Schiit Wyrd

Division 3​

1. Audio-gd Digital Interface + Class A PSU
2. AudioQuest Jitterbug
3. Wyred4Sound µLINK

 

And the rest…​

1. Firestone Audio Bravo 24/96 Digital Processor
2. KingRex UD384 + UPower
3. M2Tech Hiface
4. M2Tech Hiface Two
5. Musical Fidelity V-Link
6. Musical Fidelity V-Link192
7. Teradak Teralink X-2

 ​

Last updated: 10th April 2016.​

 

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24-Bit, 96kHz BiCMOS Sign-Magnitude DIGITAL-TO-ANALOG CONVERTER 49% FPO International Airport Industrial Park • Mailing Address: PO Box 11400, Tucson, AZ 85734 • Street Address: 6730 S. Tucson Blvd., Tucson, AZ 85706 • Tel: (520) 746-1111 • Twx: 910-952-1111 Internet: http://www.burr-brown.com/ • FAXLine: (800) 548-6133 (US/Canada Only) • Cable: BBRCORP • Telex: 066-6491 • FAX: (520) 889-1510 • Immediate Product Info: (800) 548-6132 PCM1704 ® FEATURES ● SAMPLING FREQUENCY (fS): 16kHz to 96kHz ● 8X OVERSAMPLING AT 96kHz ● INPUT AUDIO DATA WORD: 20-, 24-Bit ● HIGH PERFORMANCE: Dynamic Range: K Grade = 112dB typ SNR: 120dB typ THD+N: K Grade = 0.0008% typ ● FAST CURRENT OUTPUT: ±1.2mA/200ns ● GLITCH-FREE OUTPUT ● PIN-PROGRAMMABLE DATA INVERSION ● POWER SUPPLY: ±5V ● SMALL 20-LEAD SO PACKAGE © 1998 Burr-Brown Corporation PDS-1454C Printed in U.S.A. February, 1999 TM DESCRIPTION The PCM1704 is a precision, 24-bit digital-to-analog converter with exceptionally high dynamic performance. The ultra-low distortion and excellent lowlevel signal performance makes the PCM1704 an ideal candidate for high-end consumer and professional audio applications. When used with a digital interpolation filter, the PCM1704 supports 8X oversampling at 96kHz. The PCM1704 incorporates a BiCMOS sign-magnitude architecture that eliminates glitches and other nonlinearities around bipolar zero. The PCM1704 is precision laser-trimmed at the factory to minimize differential linearity and gain errors. In addition to high performance audio systems, the PCM1704 is well-suited to waveform synthesis applications requiring very low distortion and noise. 

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DYNAMIC PERFORMANCE(3) THD+N VO = 0dB PCM1704U 0.0025 0.0030 % PCM1704U-J 0.0015 0.0025 % PCM1704U-K 0.0008 0.0015 % VO =–20dB PCM1704U 0.008 0.020 % PCM1704U-J 0.007 0.015 % PCM1704U-K 0.006 0.01 % Dynamic Range EIAJ, A-weighted PCM1704U, U-J 102 110 dB PCM1704U-K 106 112 dB Signal-to-Noise Ratio EIAJ, A-weighted 112 120 dB Low Level Linearity f = 1002Hz at –90dB ±0.5 dB 

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