fjrabon said:

 
Lyr2 was awesome with HD800s when I had the HD800 on loan.  I EQd down the highs, but that was because I EQ down the upper treble on most every setup with the HD800s.  I've said it many times, but for my money the Lyr2 is the most versatile amp in the game right now.  

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I agree that Lyr 2 sounds just magical with my T1, will get my loaner HD800 again tomorrow to test them with my Bifrost multibit and Lyr 2. I think I'm just down to either the Lyr 2 or H10 to pair with the m9XX and the HD800. This one is going to be tough decision.

solarium said:

  I agree that Lyr 2 sounds just magical with my T1, will get my loaner HD800 again tomorrow to test them with my Bifrost multibit and Lyr 2. I think I'm just down to either the Lyr 2 or H10 to pair with the m9XX and the HD800. This one is going to be tough decision.

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m9XX as a dac shouldn't be that far behind the multibit, not too sure though. But yeah, as you noted the Lyr is good, and is a definite upgrade over the mediocre amp in the m9XX.

Amp on the small form m9xx is good only for portability non-critical listening. You need bigger gun external amp to squeeze out the performance for critical listening.

Got my HD800 again today. Testing with the amp using m9XX vs Lyr 2 using the m9XX as DAC. The HD800 is definitely driven much better on the m9XX than my T1, but compared to the Lyr 2, especially the bass, doesn't hit as hard and the highs are not as exciting. I'm not sure if this "controlled" feeling is a characteristic of the m9XX amp, which makes the HD800 mellow like sounding, or is it the lack of proper amping power which it may or may not have. I use a volume of 70-74 on my m9XX driving the HD800, whereas I was using 75-80 on my T1. A volume difference of 4-5 points on the m9XX shouldn't in theory be that much different right, so the HD800 is likely also be lacking in amping as well? I'm not sure, can anyone who has both m9XX and HD800 chime in whether you think the HD800 needs additional amping to sound good?
 
On another note, compared to the bifrost multibit and using the Lyr 2 as the amp, the m9XX DAC is VERY close. I'm not sure which is "better" but the multibit has less bass and more treble, and thus more more of an airy sound and larger soundstage, whereas the m9XX has more of a "controlled" but more impactful bass, less of the treble sparkle, and perhaps a slightly less soundstage. It took several A-B comparison to notice really any difference, and the difference may or may not be there. Again, I'm not sure if this proves that the m9XX is very similar in quality to the bifrost multibit, or just that DAC's in general have very little differences at all.

solarium said:

  I'm not sure, can anyone who has both m9XX and HD800 chime in whether you think the HD800 needs additional amping to sound good?

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 at this price point, this combo is as good as it gets for those cans, which is already pretty amazing.
 
if u want more details, u need to spend very much more on amping.

sghound said:

 at this price point, this combo is as good as it gets for those cans, which is already pretty amazing.

if u want more details, u need to spend very much more on amping.

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I seriously disagree. Only if transportability is an issue, then maybe. Otherwise $500 for this combo is grossly overpriced for desktop use. I have an ODAC + Polaris which seriously outperforms the m9XX in almost all aspects, and I can't justify it's $500 price tag which is why I sold mine considering my stack at $400 kills it in terms of amping performance especially.

IMHO it's worth $300 at best in sound quality, but that's just me and I was seriously unimpressed with the m9XX during the time I spent with it.

EDIT: Even if transportability is an issue, a portable solution like the Mojo or IDSD would probably be better and more convenient, and the m9XX falls in a weird spot because of this, and is only really good if you can't afford two setups (one for home, and one for work/portable) and need to carry it to and from work. Otherwise you can get better sound quality for $500 from desktop setups or better portability with portable dac/amps.

The hype the m9XX gets is undeserved, and I'm not hating but just need to put it out here to counter this monstrous hype train.

lvince95 said:

I seriously disagree. Only if transportability is an issue, then maybe. Otherwise $500 for this combo is grossly overpriced for desktop use. I have an ODAC + Polaris which seriously outperforms the m9XX in almost all aspects, and I can't justify it's $500 price tag which is why I sold mine considering my stack at $400 kills it in terms of amping performance especially.

IMHO it's worth $300 at best in sound quality, but that's just me and I was seriously unimpressed with the m9XX during the time I spent with it.

EDIT: Even if transportability is an issue, a portable solution like the Mojo or IDSD would probably be better and more convenient, and the m9XX falls in a weird spot because of this, and is only really good if you can't afford two setups (one for home, and one for work/portable) and need to carry it to and from work. Otherwise you can get better sound quality for $500 from desktop setups or better portability with portable dac/amps.

The hype the m9XX gets is undeserved, and I'm not hating but just need to put it out here to counter this monstrous hype train.

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I think it does a decent job of DAC'ing, which is possibly on par with bifrost 4490 which is $400, but with much smaller footprint and combined with a good quality amp (although a little bit weak) that can power 300 ohm or below headphones. Being such a DAC/amp, I think the $500 is justified if you're not pairing it with anything higher than 300 ohm or power hungry. I think people who are claiming that they use this perfectly with anything more hungrier than a HD800 is doubtful. Most people say amps has more impact than DAC in making an impact on overall sound, so perhaps there's little appreciable difference going from a ODAC/modi to the m9xx/bifrost, and there would be more difference going to a better amp. I'll have to make more comparisons with the multibit and the m9XX's DAC portion, but I've compared the m9XX to my STX II using the HD800, and the m9XX definitely sounds better.

solarium said:

 
I think it does a decent job of DAC'ing, which is possibly on par with bifrost 4490 which is $400, but with much smaller footprint and combined with a good quality amp (although a little bit weak) that can power 300 ohm or below headphones. Being such a DAC/amp, I think the $500 is justified if you're not pairing it with anything higher than 300 ohm or power hungry. I think people who are claiming that they use this perfectly with anything more hungrier than a HD800 is doubtful. Most people say amps has more impact than DAC in making an impact on overall sound, so perhaps there's little appreciable difference going from a ODAC/modi to the m9xx/bifrost, and there would be more difference going to a better amp. I'll have to make more comparisons with the multibit and the m9XX's DAC portion, but I've compared the m9XX to my STX II using the HD800, and the m9XX definitely sounds better.

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I don't think it's lack of power that holds the amp section back.  You aren't really even close to running out of power if you're in the 70s, you have around 800 mW of headroom if you're in the  mid 70s.  I am not, at all, saying that your findings that you didn't like it with the T1 are invalid/unjustified, simply saying it's probably not because it lacks power.  

I too don't think it's just about power. Even my low impedance cans sound better on the Polaris; it's proably due to the design, circuitry or components used in the m9XX and not lack of power. I'm sure they had to make compromises when trying to fit both the DAC and the amp into that small chassis.

fjrabon said:

 
I don't think it's lack of power that holds the amp section back.  You aren't really even close to running out of power if you're in the 70s, you have around 800 mW of headroom if you're in the  mid 70s.  I am not, at all, saying that your findings that you didn't like it with the T1 are invalid/unjustified, simply saying it's probably not because it lacks power.  

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lvince95 said:

I too don't think it's just about power. Even my low impedance cans sound better on the Polaris; it's proably due to the design, circuitry or components used in the m9XX and not lack of power. I'm sure they had to make compromises when trying to fit both the DAC and the amp into that small chassis.

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It's possible that it's the sound signature they were striving for, a more "mellow" and "controlled" sound. I feel like the top and bottom end of the frequencies are more rolled off.

solarium said:

   
It's possible that it's the sound signature they were striving for, a more "mellow" and "controlled" sound. I feel like the top and bottom end of the frequencies are more rolled off.

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yeah, to my ears it's the same basic sound signature as the m920, which to me indicates it's the signature/response/THD profile they were aiming for.  No signature is going to be for everybody.  Same thing happens with Schiit, they have a definite sound some people like, some people view it as too bright or too boring.  

fjrabon said:

I don't think it's lack of power that holds the amp section back.  You aren't really even close to running out of power if you're in the 70s, you have around 800 mW of headroom if you're in the  mid 70s.  I am not, at all, saying that your findings that you didn't like it with the T1 are invalid/unjustified, simply saying it's probably not because it lacks power.  

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I'm truly confounded by comments that the m9XX's amp is somehow inferior and that it's "grossly overpriced". I can't help but think such hyperbole is someone's agenda, because neither is anywhere close to factual. With DSD capability and its remarkably clean, opamp-less amp design, this little device is amazing. Sure, it isn't a "big planar"-driving madman, but it's very capable of driving any dynamic cans (and efficient planars, like the LCD-X). I still think it's the best value in an all-in-one unit, and I've not seen anything out there that threatens to dethrone it.

solarium said:

It's possible that it's the sound signature they were striving for, a more "mellow" and "controlled" sound. I feel like the top and bottom end of the frequencies are more rolled off.

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Mine sounded rolled off too, and with poor imaging before I sorted out some USB problems I had with the xmos interface. My previous nuforce amp didn't have the USB issues I face with the Grace's xmos chip on the same Windows computer.

If you guys are on Macs, then maybe nevermind this since they natively support USB mode 2, but have you tried using the toslink to isolate potential issues with USB?

magick man said:

I'm truly confounded by comments that the m9XX's amp is somehow inferior and that it's "grossly overpriced". I can't help but think such hyperbole is someone's agenda, because neither is anywhere close to factual. With DSD capability and its remarkably clean, opamp-less amp design, this little device is amazing. Sure, it isn't a "big planar"-driving madman, but it's very capable of driving any dynamic cans (and efficient planars, like the LCD-X). I still think it's the best value in an all-in-one unit, and I've not seen anything out there that threatens to dethrone it.

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We just have differing opinions. To me it's overpriced as the amp is not really that good to my ears, and like I mentioned the setup that I have at $400 sounds better to my ears with the TH900 and Omni. A Schiit stack or O2+ODAC would probably sound close in terms of performance albeit with different sound signatures of course.

Switching from the m9XX to the ODAC does yield a slight improvement, which should be expected. But using the m9XX as a dac and comparing the amp to something like a Polaris or Lyr? Idk but the Polaris is in a different league to my ears and it only costs $250. As such, I would label the m9XX as grossly overpriced. Bass extension, texture, speed, impact; treble extension and airiness; dynamics ---- they all sound better on the Polaris imo. The m9XX is warm with a bass bloom and not as fast or dynamic sounding to me. i don't claim that I have volume matched them and did a successful blind ABX test, but I did my best within human error.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you really like how the m9XX sounds, then more power to you sir.

Edit: minor errors, on mobile

magick man said:

I'm truly confounded by comments that the m9XX's amp is somehow inferior and that it's "grossly overpriced". I can't help but think such hyperbole is someone's agenda, because neither is anywhere close to factual. With DSD capability and its remarkably clean, opamp-less amp design, this little device is amazing. Sure, it isn't a "big planar"-driving madman, but it's very capable of driving any dynamic cans (and efficient planars, like the LCD-X). I still think it's the best value in an all-in-one unit, and I've not seen anything out there that threatens to dethrone it.

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What do you pair the m9XX with? How do you like it with the HD800 or the T1? I haven't heard many higher end DAC or amps so I'm not sure sure how they're supposed to sound like.