[fjrabon]

The m9XX is warm with a bass bloom and not as fast or dynamic sounding to me. i don't claim that I have volume matched them and did a successful blind ABX test, but I did my best within human error.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you really like how the m9XX sounds, then more power to you sir.

I don't mean this to invalidate your opinion at all, but the funny aspect of this all to me is that the early criticism of the amp section of the m9XX was that it was "too harsh and bright" whereas now the main criticism I see is that it's "too bass bloomy and slow."  And then another person says it's "rolled off on both ends"
 
Just curious that we are all kind of guilty of saying these things as facts, when most of them are completely contradictory.  But I do find it weird that there isn't a consensus on what is even the shortcoming of the m9XX.  One person says "too much bass bloat" the next says "bass is too rolled off" LOL.

 

[lvince95]

I don't mean this to invalidate your opinion at all, but the funny aspect of this all to me is that the early criticism of the amp section of the m9XX was that it was "too harsh and bright" whereas now the main criticism I see is that it's "too bass bloomy and slow."  And then another person says it's "rolled off on both ends"

Just curious that we are all kind of guilty of saying these things as facts, when most of them are completely contradictory.  But I do find it weird that there isn't a consensus on what is even the shortcoming of the m9XX.  One person says "too much bass bloat" the next says "bass is too rolled off" LOL.

Everyone hears differently I guess. It's all based on our ears anyway. There mightbe some bass roll-off I think? That I'm not sure. But I do hear a bass bloom. I wouldn't really call it a bloat, but would say that tere's a touch more mid/upper bass that is more like a bloom to me. This is probably what contributes to its warmth as well.

 

[Hi-Fi EDU]

  I don't mean this to invalidate your opinion at all, but the funny aspect of this all to me is that the early criticism of the amp section of the m9XX was that it was "too harsh and bright" whereas now the main criticism I see is that it's "too bass bloomy and slow."  And then another person says it's "rolled off on both ends"
 
Just curious that we are all kind of guilty of saying these things as facts, when most of them are completely contradictory.  But I do find it weird that there isn't a consensus on what is even the shortcoming of the m9XX.  One person says "too much bass bloat" the next says "bass is too rolled off" LOL.

 
Truthfully, the whole thing is quite laughable to me as well. I value varied opinions, and take them as such, but can't help but chuckle to myself at times.

 

[lvince95]

   
Truthfully, the whole thing is quite laughable to me as well. I value varied opinions, and take them as such, but can't help but chuckle to myself at times.

I guess it's laughable, but it seems to me that there's a general agreement between some that the amp is lacking. Yes, the opinions may vary. Still, I'm real glad I sold mine.

 

[Hi-Fi EDU]

 
I guess it's laughable, but it seems to me that there's a general agreement between some that the amp is lacking. Yes, the opinions may vary. Still, I'm real glad I sold mine.

 
Good to hear, that's what it's all about. ^^

 

[Magick Man]

I'm truly confounded by comments that the m9XX's amp is somehow inferior and that it's "grossly overpriced". I can't help but think such hyperbole is someone's agenda, because neither is anywhere close to factual. With DSD capability and its remarkably clean, opamp-less amp design, this little device is amazing. Sure, it isn't a "big planar"-driving madman, but it's very capable of driving any dynamic cans (and efficient planars, like the LCD-X). I still think it's the best value in an all-in-one unit, and I've not seen anything out there that threatens to dethrone it.

What do you pair the m9XX with? How do you like it with the HD800 or the T1? I haven't heard many higher end DAC or amps so I'm not sure sure how they're supposed to sound like.

It's not the right fit for the HD800 or 1st gen T1, but that's due to the amp section, not the DAC. It drives them fine but they're both better served with higher impedance amps. The HD800S, OTOH, is excellent out of m9XX, they work very well together.

 

[Magick Man]

We just have differing opinions. To me it's overpriced as the amp is not really that good to my ears, and like I mentioned the setup that I have at $400 sounds better to my ears with the TH900 and Omni. A Schiit stack or O2+ODAC would probably sound close in terms of performance albeit with different sound signatures of course.

Switching from the m9XX to the ODAC does yield a slight improvement, which should be expected. But using the m9XX as a dac and comparing the amp to something like a Polaris or Lyr? Idk but the Polaris is in a different league to my ears and it only costs $250. As such, I would label the m9XX as grossly overpriced. Bass extension, texture, speed, impact; treble extension and airiness; dynamics ---- they all sound better on the Polaris imo. The m9XX is warm with a bass bloom and not as fast or dynamic sounding to me. i don't claim that I have volume matched them and did a successful blind ABX test, but I did my best within human error.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you really like how the m9XX sounds, then more power to you sir.

Edit: minor errors, on mobile

Good for you. And no, we don't have to agree, not at all.

I don't mean this to invalidate your opinion at all, but the funny aspect of this all to me is that the early criticism of the amp section of the m9XX was that it was "too harsh and bright" whereas now the main criticism I see is that it's "too bass bloomy and slow."  And then another person says it's "rolled off on both ends"

Just curious that we are all kind of guilty of saying these things as facts, when most of them are completely contradictory.  But I do find it weird that there isn't a consensus on what is even the shortcoming of the m9XX.  One person says "too much bass bloat" the next says "bass is too rolled off" LOL.

I'm mystified where some of this comes from, personally I think certain people just like being disagreeable and/or they're hellbent on validating a purchase. Maybe they had a bad day when they listened to something and it forever tainted their view of it, who knows? Honestly, past a certain tier I can't tell much difference between SS amps at all, unless the manufacturer did something freaky with output impedance. IMO, so much of people's perceptions WRT the "vast" differences in SS amps are merely psychosomatic (like with cables and exotic line-conditioning).

 

[fjrabon]

One of my favorite criticisms are people saying its a class D amplifier. There are no capacitors in the chain, it literally can't be class D without capacitors. We've seen pictures of the board.

And I have no problem with people who say it's not for them. My problem is there's no consensus whatsoever on what the shortcoming of the amp section actually are; virtually every person who has criticised the amp has done so for a different, and often contradictory reason. To me that sounds like the tuning simply isn't for everybody, rather than a real "shortcoming." And I totally get that a given tuning might not be for everybody. But let's stop talking like there's some consensus that the amp is crappy. If you're glad you sold it, great. I'm glad I sold my HD650, that doesn't mean I think "there's a general consensus it's crappy."

The weirdest part to me is that the Mojo, on the other hand, is almost universally praised. But yet A) when I had the mojo it sounded almost identical to the m9XX B) the m9XX's most often cited weakness spec wise is lack of power, the mojo has half the power the m9XX has and C) people criticize the m9XX for digital volume attenuation. The Mojo does that too, those light up push buttons aren't analog volume pots, after all.

It's just bizarre to me.

 

[Solarium]

It's not the right fit for the HD800 or 1st gen T1, but that's due to the amp section, not the DAC. It drives them fine but they're both better served with higher impedance amps. The HD800S, OTOH, is excellent out of m9XX, they work very well together.

Any suggestions for SS amps under $500 to pair with the m9XX? I was thinking of the H10 but I'm not sure if it's high impedance enough for the HD800 or T1. Also, if I were to use the m9XX just as a DAC, would I be better off with a Bifrost 4490 instead?

 

[Ormia]

One of my favorite criticisms are people saying its a class D amplifier. There are not capacitors in the chain, it literally can't be class D without capacitors. We've seen pictures of the board.

And I have no problem with people who say it's not for them. My problem is there's no consensus whatsoever on what the shortcoming of the amp section actually *are* virtually every person who has criticised the amp has done so for a different, and often contradictory reason. To me that sounds like the tuning simply isn't for everybody, rather than a real "shortcoming." And I totally get that a given tuning might not be for everybody. But let's stop talking like there's some consensus that the amp is crappy. If you're glad you sold it, great. I'm glad I sold my HD650, that doesn't mean I think "there's a general consensus it's crappy."

The weirdest part to me is that the Mojo, on the other hand, is almost universally praised. But yet A) when I had the mojo it sounded almost identical to the m9XX B) the m9XX's most often cited weakness spec wise is lack of power, the mojo has half the power the m9XX has and C) people criticize the m9XX for digital volume attenuation. The Mojo does that too, those light up push buttons aren't analog volume pots, after all.

It's just bizarre to me.

Totally agree with you 100%

 

[fjrabon]

 
Any suggestions for SS amps under $500 to pair with the m9XX? I was thinking of the H10 but I'm not sure if it's high impedance enough for the HD800 or T1. Also, if I were to use the m9XX just as a DAC, would I be better off with a Bifrost 4490 instead?

1) do you like crossfeed?  This is an advantage to the m9XX as DAC, but only if you use it.  It's a very good crossfeed circuit, IMHO.
 
2) Do you change the filters on the m9XX?  
 
If you don't use crossfeed or change filters, I'd probably go with the 4490.  That's a great DAC, I owned one, and liked it a lot.  I sold it (and my Lyr2) when I got the m9XX simply because i preferred the feature set and size, and I didn't need the versatility or raw power of the Lyr2.  
 
I wouldn't bother with the H10 unless you're feeding it with a DAC that outputs balanced.  The big strength of the H10 is that signal paths stay separate up until the very last moment if you use a balanced output DAC, I never liked the sound it had when being fed unbalanced from a DAC, it almost seemed to me like they put most of their effort into the balanced inputs, and kinda skimped on the unbalanced signal path.  The Lake People G109A that's on massdrop right now would be a good option if going unbalanced DAC (bifrost or m9XX are both unbalanced output).  

 

[shigzeo]

  Totally agree with you 100%

I think the thing the Mojo is praised most highly for is that it does all that it does, and at that insane power level, on batteries. M9XX is better in a number of key areas (both measurable and discernible by ear) but it requires external power. Personally, I prefer the M9XX, but gave the year to the Mojo. 

 

[shigzeo]

It's not the right fit for the HD800 or 1st gen T1, but that's due to the amp section, not the DAC. It drives them fine but they're both better served with higher impedance amps. The HD800S, OTOH, is excellent out of m9XX, they work very well together.

Totally disagree here. I'm sure you may prefer a different sound, or may prefer a higher impedance output amp for those headphones, but that doesn't make that amp better serve those headphones. The M9XX is stunning.

 

[Solarium]

 
1) do you like crossfeed?  This is an advantage to the m9XX as DAC, but only if you use it.  It's a very good crossfeed circuit, IMHO.
 
2) Do you change the filters on the m9XX?  
 
If you don't use crossfeed or change filters, I'd probably go with the 4490.  That's a great DAC, I owned one, and liked it a lot.  I sold it (and my Lyr2) when I got the m9XX simply because i preferred the feature set and size, and I didn't need the versatility or raw power of the Lyr2.  
 
I wouldn't bother with the H10 unless you're feeding it with a DAC that outputs balanced.  The big strength of the H10 is that signal paths stay separate up until the very last moment if you use a balanced output DAC, I never liked the sound it had when being fed unbalanced from a DAC, it almost seemed to me like they put most of their effort into the balanced inputs, and kinda skimped on the unbalanced signal path.  The Lake People G109A that's on massdrop right now would be a good option if going unbalanced DAC (bifrost or m9XX are both unbalanced output).  

Awesome reply! So you actually sold the 4490 and the Lyr 2 in favor of the m9XX!? I'm going like the exact opposite route by now testing the multibit and Lyr 2. How was your experience going from the 4490/Lyr2 to the m9XX? I would love to hear it. What do you use the m9XX with? I'm guessing your 400i and the THX00?
 

Good explanation on the H10. What is an example of a balanced output DAC? Sounds like they're going to be over $1k though if the bifrost or m9XX are not even balanced. Do you need balanced lines from the headphones to take advantage of that? You would recommend the G109A over the Lyr 2?

 

[fjrabon]

 
Awesome reply! So you actually sold the 4490 and the Lyr 2 in favor of the m9XX!? I'm going like the exact opposite route by now testing the multibit and Lyr 2. How was your experience going from the 4490/Lyr2 to the m9XX? I would love to hear it. What do you use the m9XX with? I'm guessing your 400i and the THX00?
 

Good explanation on the H10. What is an example of a balanced output DAC? Sounds like they're going to be over $1k though if the bifrost or m9XX are not even balanced. Do you need balanced lines from the headphones to take advantage of that? You would recommend the G109A over the Lyr 2?

"in favor" probably isn't a good way of putting my reasons for the switch.  It had nothing to do with sound, but rather feature set and size.  Sound wise, I loved the Lyr2 and 4490.  However, I was basically never using it, because it had to stay on a desk at home, which I rarely get to listen to music that way these days.  Most of my listening comes either at work or walking the dog, or at a starbucks, or walking around the house doing chores.  So my 4490 -> Lyr2 -> HD650 setup was just being neglected.  I use the m9XX with the HE400i and THX00 mostly, yes.  But it works well with every headphone in my signature (you'll notice they're all very efficient headphones, everything I own can be driven well out of an iPhone).  
 
I know the Gustard DAC that massdrop drops pretty frequently, the X12 is balanced and specifically designed to work well with the H10.  https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gustard-dac-x12-usb-version  It's under $500 right now.  You don't need a balanced headphone, as the H10's output isn't balanced.  People talk about balanced like it's all or nothing.  Essentially the longer the signal stays separated, the better.  With the X12 -> H10, the signal stays separated until the very end, right before your headphones.  This is the best solution short of going fully balanced.  
 
The 109A vs the Lyr2 is a total matter of preference.  They're great amps.  I'd probably get the Lyr2 though.  Mostly comes down to your tube hybrid amp vs pure solid state amp preferences.