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New Nagra HD DAC - Page 18

post #256 of 594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulchiu View Post

What is the first song you are listening to?

Does the manual say how many more burn in hours over the 142 is needed?

 

I listen through a collection of reference tracks I have built up over years that vary in genre, bit depth, format DSD/PCM 

 

The manual says 200 hundred hours, I would be surprised if that were it, normally DAC's take at least 500 hours

 

The packing is the best I have seen of any audio product, regardless of price. A lot of effort and expense went into it

post #257 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by isquirrel View Post
 

Okay some very strange things going on, I have the optional balanced transformers installed, connected to the amp normally there is zero bass, mid range is emancipated. Clearly something is up. Tried the headphone out, all good plenty of everything through that, had to use the stock HE-1000 cable though as I don't have an adapter. That's on its way. The stock cables are average so there is no way I could accurately describe what I can hear other than to say it sounds promising. The DHC cables improve the sound so much over stock that's its not much fun listening without them.

 

I will be on the phone to Nagra support tonight to find out whats going on, I am thinking that the jumpers for the balanced outputs need to be configured differently. Of course my balanced cables were too short so another longer set is on its way next week. Honestly you would think by now I would have learned. Have checked the balanced pin outs and they are all wired normally/correctly

 

So in summary, disappointing really as I can't get a good handle on the sound. For those that are wondering, the on board HP amp is more than capable and drives the HEK's to ear splitting levels.

 

Surprised that the DAC already has over a hundred hours on it. Nagra clearly do some serious testing which makes the balanced output issue even more strange.

 

 

 

 

Maybe something came loose during transport.  I'm sure it will get resolved.  Excellent news about the headphone output.  That is indeed some nice audio jewelry.  Is that the CAD CAT on the bottom shelf?

post #258 of 594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by romaz View Post
 

 

Maybe something came loose during transport.  I'm sure it will get resolved.  Excellent news about the headphone output.  That is indeed some nice audio jewelry.  Is that the CAD CAT on the bottom shelf?


Nope, that's the Shunyata Typhon slaved to the Triton V2, if you look a few threads back you will see a photo of the system you can see properly, I will take a better one tonight if I have time.

post #259 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by isquirrel View Post

I will be on the phone to Nagra support tonight to find out what's going on.

Sitting on a comfortable Pins & Needles chair with popcorn in hand!

Edited by Johnny Moondog - 10/2/15 at 1:18pm
post #260 of 594
Isquirrel, since your Balanced connaction has a problem, did you tried using the SE RCA out to your amp ?

Also, what Exact DHC Cable are you using with the HE1000.
post #261 of 594
Quote:
 OMG. I am so horny looking at these boxes. I am so envious, and excited. Going for a glass of wine. Wondering when mine will arrive.

 

LOL! That just might be the best reaction to an unboxing of GEAR I've ever read!

post #262 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by isquirrel View Post


Nope, that's the Shunyata Typhon slaved to the Triton V2, if you look a few threads back you will see a photo of the system you can see properly, I will take a better one tonight if I have time.

Should have taken a shot with those gloves it came with as you removed the nagra bag covering the unit.... ;-)
post #263 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by isquirrel View Post
 

Okay some very strange things going on, I have the optional balanced transformers installed, connected to the amp normally there is zero bass, mid range is emancipated. Clearly something is up. Tried the headphone out, all good plenty of everything through that, had to use the stock HE-1000 cable though as I don't have an adapter. That's on its way. The stock cables are average so there is no way I could accurately describe what I can hear other than to say it sounds promising. The DHC cables improve the sound so much over stock that's its not much fun listening without them.

 

I will be on the phone to Nagra support tonight to find out whats going on, I am thinking that the jumpers for the balanced outputs need to be configured differently. Of course my balanced cables were too short so another longer set is on its way next week. Honestly you would think by now I would have learned. Have checked the balanced pin outs and they are all wired normally/correctly

 

So in summary, disappointing really as I can't get a good handle on the sound. For those that are wondering, the on board HP amp is more than capable and drives the HEK's to ear splitting levels.

 

Surprised that the DAC already has over a hundred hours on it. Nagra clearly do some serious testing which makes the balanced output issue even more strange.

 

 

 

 

You probably did this but at the risk of being redundant: a) You changed line mode from variable to fixed? b) You also twiddled around with line output level between low and high?

post #264 of 594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonix View Post
 

 

You probably did this but at the risk of being redundant: a) You changed line mode from variable to fixed? b) You also twiddled around with line output level between low and high?


Yes, although with the balanced output transformers installed you cannot select variable mode neither can you output via the RCA terminals. Balanced only. I also noticed that there was hardly any difference changing the line output between low and high. Strange.

 

No matter until this gets sorted out its a no go, so the Kalliope is back in, useful though to have spent a day listening to the headphone out, there is not enough gain to drive the Abyss properly and there is also not enough current to drive the HE-1000 correctly either. They do sound good but so much better when driven by the 234's you get a sense of limitless power which you do not have using the headphone out. Could I live with the headphone out, yes with the HE-1000's I could, however I would be limited by future headphone choices.

 

Nagra tech have not responded yet, the issue has to be with the balanced outputs, I refuse to accept that is how it is supposed to sound, then why does the headphone output sound so completely different?

 

With the Nagra came instructions for adding the board so hopefully worse case scenario I can remove it so this problem can be troubleshooted. Has anyone else got the balanced transformers installed?

 

Frustrating....

post #265 of 594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonix View Post


Should have taken a shot with those gloves it came with as you removed the nagra bag covering the unit.... ;-)


Yes they are nice, the heavy silk cloth is a nice touch.

post #266 of 594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmichels View Post

Isquirrel, since your Balanced connaction has a problem, did you tried using the SE RCA out to your amp ?

Also, what Exact DHC Cable are you using with the HE1000.


 My post above covers the outputs, I am using a new DHC cable based on the Spore 4 Fusion. I had several cables on hand and have tried swapping them round, no joy.

post #267 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by isquirrel View Post


Yes, although with the balanced output transformers installed you cannot select variable mode neither can you output via the RCA terminals. Balanced only. I also noticed that there was hardly any difference changing the line output between low and high. Strange.

No matter until this gets sorted out its a no go, so the Kalliope is back in, useful though to have spent a day listening to the headphone out, there is not enough gain to drive the Abyss properly and there is also not enough current to drive the HE-1000 correctly either. They do sound good but so much better when driven by the 234's you get a sense of limitless power which you do not have using the headphone out. Could I live with the headphone out, yes with the HE-1000's I could, however I would be limited by future headphone choices.

Nagra tech have not responded yet, the issue has to be with the balanced outputs, I refuse to accept that is how it is supposed to sound, then why does the headphone output sound so completely different?

With the Nagra came instructions for adding the board so hopefully worse case scenario I can remove it so this problem can be troubleshooted. Has anyone else got the balanced transformers installed?

Frustrating....

When I got mine the low end and mids were short though your.case drrms to be.complete absence. It took me about 350 hours for that to come aroundand keeps improving to 500 hours. Your mileage will vary obviously
post #268 of 594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonix View Post


When I got mine the low end and mids were short though your.case drrms to be.complete absence. It took me about 350 hours for that to come aroundand keeps improving to 500 hours. Your mileage will vary obviously


I spoke with another member and he mentioned the same, I asked him if he had noticed that the bass was so weak and almost non existent when new, he said it was weak in the bass and lower mids when new and it did improve greatly with time. He felt that even after the 500 hour mark it was still improving substantially. Can you remember when yours was new, how weak was the bass performance? Could this be a matter of burn in, if so then why such a substantial difference to the headphone output?

 

I have ordered another set of the DHC cables but with a 6.3MM Jack, Peter is rushing them through, should receive them by the end of next week. Took some photos of the inside and close ups of the balanced transformers plus their instruction sheet so you can change to the RCA's using the symmetrical balanced transformers. Everything looks as it should nothing loose. I am going to try the 2nd option and running through the RCA's.

 

 

 

 

post #269 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by isquirrel View Post


I spoke with another member and he mentioned the same, I asked him if he had noticed that the bass was so weak and almost non existent when new, he said it was weak in the bass and lower mids when new and it did improve greatly with time. He felt that even after the 500 hour mark it was still improving substantially. Can you remember when yours was new, how weak was the bass performance? Could this be a matter of burn in, if so then why such a substantial difference to the headphone output?

I have ordered another set of the DHC cables but with a 6.3MM Jack, Peter is rushing them through, should receive them by the end of next week. Took some photos of the inside and close ups of the balanced transformers plus their instruction sheet so you can change to the RCA's using the symmetrical balanced transformers. Everything looks as it should nothing loose. I am going to try the 2nd option and running through the RCA's.












It was weak and not definitve though not completely absent especially that.region where.you feel it more than here it.

300+ hours was the marker for me when it started coming back. I am not sure if the incremental change ater 500 hours was that much. I'm sure mileage will vary.

Couldnt begin to guess why headamp section is different though it will have a very different load to line level output...
My guess is component break in, tubes (triode), array of massive caps, copper wound transformers who knows.

Lots of dacs out there are chipsets, output opamps...
post #270 of 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by isquirrel View Post


I spoke with another member and he mentioned the same, I asked him if he had noticed that the bass was so weak and almost non existent when new, he said it was weak in the bass and lower mids when new and it did improve greatly with time. He felt that even after the 500 hour mark it was still improving substantially. Can you remember when yours was new, how weak was the bass performance? Could this be a matter of burn in, if so then why such a substantial difference to the headphone output?

I have ordered another set of the DHC cables but with a 6.3MM Jack, Peter is rushing them through, should receive them by the end of next week. Took some photos of the inside and close ups of the balanced transformers plus their instruction sheet so you can change to the RCA's using the symmetrical balanced transformers. Everything looks as it should nothing loose. I am going to try the 2nd option and running through the RCA's.












One thing I wondered about is whether.the balancing transformers would degrade the units.phase performance. You should have a test.report.for the phasr.perfomance of your unit. Would you care to share that.if possible or pm to me dorectly? Thanks
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