[isquirrel]

Lets take this to PM

 

[bmichels]

isquirrel,  I feel very sorry for you. This must be very frustrating.  

Also, based on your first impression, it looks like the internal Amp will not be able to replace an external amp!

So... The "One Box solution" dream may be fading away ! :rolleyes:

 

[PAM005]

Isquirrel, did you try (to replace) the tube? It's the most sensitive part in your DAC, and mostly causes the problem after transport that far (Switzerland-Australia ) Your problem doesn't seem logical regarding the care Nagra normaly do take regarding QC!

 

[Yoga]

You scratched the Nagra itch! That’s a shame isquirrel - hope it gets sorted quickly.

 

[paulchiu]

If the tube was dislocated from transport, then @isquirrel would have bad headphone sound as well.  He did say the initial response with a HE1000 was good.
At this point @isquirrel, why not let it power up continuously for a week, hear how it sounds.  If there is an improvement, let it run for another week.  After two weeks, you will have over 500+ hours.
I am sure your Nagra High End dealer will exchange any defective unit at that time.
 
 
 
Quote:

  Isquirrel, did you try (to replace) the tube? It's the most sensitive part in your DAC, and mostly causes the problem after transport that far (Switzerland-Australia ) Your problem doesn't seem logical regarding the care Nagra normaly do take regarding QC!

 

[PAM005]

 

I think you'll have a case ! Good thoughts...

 

[Johnny Moondog]

  No matter until this gets sorted out its a no go, so the Kalliope is back in...

 

 

[isquirrel]

It is not the tube, I have lodged a support request through Nagra support, I understand that once it is picked up then they dedicate a support person solely to work on your case until the problem is rectified.
 
My feeling is that its a phase/jumper issue in how the XLR balanced outs are configured, so should be easy to sort out. The sound through the headphone out is very good. The sound through the XLR's (rca's do not function) is thin and bright with zero weight. This all points to a chronically out of phase issue.
 
BTW their is a very good in depth review of the Kalliope up on Six Moons http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/gryphon/1.html 

 

[isquirrel]

isquirrel,  I feel very sorry for you. This must be very frustrating.  

Also, based on your first impression, it looks like the internal Amp will not be able to replace an external amp!

So... The "One Box solution" dream may be fading away ! 

Thanks, I am naturally disappointed but it has forced me to listen to the headphone out and use the HE-1000 stock cables, something I wouldn't otherwise have done for so long, I would have listened to the headphone out but not for as long as a will be doing now 

 
I am really happy with the sound thus far through the headphone output, surprisingly so given that I am using the stock cables, to anyone who has the HE-1000's do yourself a massive favour and ditch the stock cables. I have never heard a headphone respond so well to decent cables.
 
I am not exactly feeling sorry for myself after all it was my "bright" idea to add the optional balancing transformers. I am not exactly slumming it with the other equipment I have here either!
 
I feel pretty  safe in saying that the Nagra is really something special, there is an allure to the sound that has me bouncing back to it, there is nothing like hearing a DAC direct so to speak.

 

[bmichels]

AHhhh.  So finally you find it's headphone out very good ? even with demanding headphones like the HE1000 ? 
 
But... I guess not to the point that we can get rid of our "big" external headphone Amps ? 

 

[paulchiu]

Just read and learned you have a Gryphon Kalliope DAC.  What in the Nagra HD DAC were you looking for beyond the Gryphon offering?
Thanks
 
 
 
Quote:

 
Thanks, I am naturally disappointed but it has forced me to listen to the headphone out and use the HE-1000 stock cables, something I wouldn't otherwise have done for so long, I would have listened to the headphone out but not for as long as a will be doing now 

 
I am really happy with the sound thus far through the headphone output, surprisingly so given that I am using the stock cables, to anyone who has the HE-1000's do yourself a massive favour and ditch the stock cables. I have never heard a headphone respond so well to decent cables.
 
I am not exactly feeling sorry for myself after all it was my "bright" idea to add the optional balancing transformers. I am not exactly slumming it with the other equipment I have here either!
 
I feel pretty  safe in saying that the Nagra is really something special, there is an allure to the sound that has me bouncing back to it, there is nothing like hearing a DAC direct so to speak.

 

[isquirrel]

 

Well that depends on how loud you listen, I don't think I am in the extreme volume club but for me the gain is at 60% - 70% with the HE-1000's. Depends on the kind of headroom you want. I will be able to comment more over the next 2 weeks as ZI have a plethora of different cables coming with different adapters for pretty much everything - so I can try my LCD-X & 3F which historically have needed less gain than the HE-1000 or Abyss.

 

[isquirrel]

Just read and learned you have a Gryphon Kalliope DAC.  What in the Nagra HD DAC were you looking for beyond the Gryphon offering?

Yes I also have a CAD 1543 and a Light Harmonic DaVinci - you could say I am DAC'ed out, no seriously I find DAC's fascinating and also have a couple of systems so they get switched around and used. What drew me to the Nagra was the re-think of the basic way that the digital signal was processed. It also has a headphone out so it can be used when I travel overseas. I have family in the UK, so I spend a few weeks of the year there typically. I decided this year that I would investigate a few DAC's. These have all been on the short list and so far what I have found is that at this level there is no such thing as a bad sounding DAC, (apart from the surprise of the dCS). 
 
Bac on topic the Gryphon is built wonderfully well, the power supplies are massive and Gryphon have enough resources that they could have run with any topology. I was amazed when the choose the Sabre 9018S however despite my earlier reservations I have been pleasantly surprised by its performance. 
 
Please feel free to shoot away with any questions. There is a another review of the Kalliope up here:
 
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0814/gryphon_audio_designs_kalliope_dac.htm

 

[isquirrel]

If the tube was dislocated from transport, then @isquirrel would have bad headphone sound as well.  He did say the initial response with a HE1000 was good.
At this point @isquirrel, why not let it power up continuously for a week, hear how it sounds.  If there is an improvement, let it run for another week.  After two weeks, you will have over 500+ hours.
I am sure your Nagra High End dealer will exchange any defective unit at that time.

 
You seem to be getting good performance from your Nagra as do others I have been in contact with. I am sure this will get sorted soon. Its worth trying to set the jumpers to enable the RCA's and see if that makes any difference. Will try that on Monday as I have a busy weekend.

 

[isquirrel]

I know some of you want some definitive answers, however I cannot give these to you, the reality is the on board amp is not powerful enough to be able to say broadly "yes it can power any headphone to crazy levels with zero problems" It has limited power. The volume you listen at is a personal preference, you may or may not be able to live with it, as this DAC is so new to me I am adjusting to it and finding both its and my own levels of suitability. 
 
On top of that I am trying to give people some feedback on what it sounds like very very early on. Also at a stage where all is clearly not right with the DAC outputs.
 
Maybe its best if I go silent on all this until these matters are sorted out. 
 
Inevitably people have to do what I have and that is spend your own money to find out for yourself whether or not you can live with a piece of equipment and its foibles. Some sit on the fence for a long time and try and get a handle on these things vicariously.  No one can provide the exact answers you want, this is a subjective hobby and ultimately people need to find out for themselves.
 
Personally I can't do that by doing a dealer demo, or 2 or 3, its just not long enough. I need to live with a piece of equipment for a while and try many different things before I can honestly say I know it well and form a qualitative opinion. I have experienced some pieces of equipment that I really didn't rate at first but after several months found that they have benefitted greatly from burn in and system changes. I have no idea of where in my preferences the Nagra is going to end up in several months time. That is why typically reviewers have a piece of equipment in for review for a substantial amount of time.