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Light Harmonic Geek Wave
Jul 9, 2014 at 2:37 AM Post #481 of 5,933
I thought background hiss was a function of gain, not power output. The Objective 2 can output a maximum of 7 VRMS for example and has absolutely zero hiss even with sensitive earphones. My Geek Out 450 has more hiss than the headphone output of my MacBook Pro with the 0.47 Ω output. That makes no sense whatsoever. If the stock Wave has background hiss in the first place without the IEM upgrade, then I would say the product is pretty flawed to begin with. Even a $40 Sansa Clip Zip barely has any background hiss with sensitive headphones.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:00 AM Post #483 of 5,933
miyaichi said:
  Is the ES9018M of the DAC upgrade the same like the one used in the iBasso DX90?
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Yes, it likely will be. There's a bit of marketing in their descriptions but I like a lot of what they're doing. In this case they don't give the full nomenclature but just enough to differentiate from the full size 8ch version to protect thenselves. In the end, it will come down to execution.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:10 AM Post #484 of 5,933
miceblue said:
I thought background hiss was a function of gain, not power output. The Objective 2 can output a maximum of 7 VRMS for example and has absolutely zero hiss even with sensitive earphones. My Geek Out 450 has more hiss than the headphone output of my MacBook Pro with the 0.47 Ω output. That makes no sense whatsoever. If the stock Wave has background hiss in the first place without the IEM upgrade, then I would say the product is pretty flawed to begin with. Even a $40 Sansa Clip Zip barely has any background hiss with sensitive headphones.
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This is not very encouraging. I thought it was an issue only for GO1000, not the 450. Oh well... :frowning2:
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:11 AM Post #485 of 5,933
thirdman said:
  Please read the quote I responded to.  you are bringing up an entirely different issue all together, I notice you own an AK240, a $2500 device.  I believe the Wave may be competitive at a fraction of the cost.  Who got "milked"?
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Really? 2 things you probably never heard and one that doesn't yet exist. Brilliant. Throwing digs at established respected posters because they raise legitimate questions? Me thinks you're in on the promotion and have become extremely biased to you upcoming purchase. There's a lot of marketing in their promotion and some of the upgrades have likely been added to keep the ball rolling. The basic 128 looks like a very nice player for the money. I love the storage and topology but until we hear one with an interface that's easy to use, it's just a nice story.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:13 AM Post #486 of 5,933
miceblue said:
I thought background hiss was a function of gain, not power output. The Objective 2 can output a maximum of 7 VRMS for example and has absolutely zero hiss even with sensitive earphones. My Geek Out 450 has more hiss than the headphone output of my MacBook Pro with the 0.47 Ω output. That makes no sense whatsoever. If the stock Wave has background hiss in the first place without the IEM upgrade, then I would say the product is pretty flawed to begin with. Even a $40 Sansa Clip Zip barely has any background hiss with sensitive headphones.
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It's a bit of both. There tends to be more thermal noise with higher supply voltages (more power). Still not something you want to deal with.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:24 AM Post #487 of 5,933
goodvibes said:
It's a bit of both. There tend to be more thermal noise with higher supply voltages (more power). Still not something you want to deal with.
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Did you back the IEM perk? Do you think we need that? I'm sitting on a wave32 @$208 ($168+40shippong) which I thought was reasonable to try for sth that just uses a mobile ess9018m DAC chip with run of the mills opa1652/1612 ok amps. Would really hate to have to send extra $128 to get it work without hiss.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:25 AM Post #488 of 5,933
thirdman said:
 
alright, alright...chillax, :)  I see your dilemma, personally I would get the IEM perk if you are concerned about hiss, because, once the campaign hits $999,999 you will also get a gain switch.  Yes, this is of less importance on the 160mW models, but it does give you a little added flexibility and insurance against hiss.  The problem with the Wave is it is still just a concept with a working prototype, not even the engineer can be certain at this point.  It is a gamble, If one can not stomach it or chooses not to take on the additional risk, then wait for the retail release after the "guinea" pigs(myself included) have chimed in.
 
In short, no one can answer for sure if its absolutely necessary.  The goals of the IEM perk are to lower the noise floor, improve DC offset and provide finer volume control.  Will the base 64 without IEM be dead quiet? I hope so.
 
This may not be any help....
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Gain settings also tend to have subtle sonic changes as well. It's really impossible to decide things like this without an example. They should all just have gain switches. I mean really, making all these versions has to be making the mean price increase. Make a single, a balanced and a tweak version (all with a gain switch), with set features and call it a day.
 
Choice is great but if we trust these guys know what they're doing, we should trust that they can hear and know which perks and features matter. All these options and choices seems counterproductive to me. Doesn't make the player any better or worse when it shows up but I personally like a more focused approach then the committee optioned one.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:40 AM Post #489 of 5,933
kkcc said:
Did you back the IEM perk? Do you think we need that? I'm sitting on a wave32 @$208 ($168+40shippong) which I thought was reasonable to try for sth that just uses a mobile ess9018m DAC chip with run of the mills opa1652/1612 ok amps. Would really hate to have to send extra $128 to get it work without hiss.
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I haven't joined in. I'll wait and see what experienced guys like you think and pay the piper if that time comes. I'm trying to stop chasing my tail but I'll get hooked by something like this is it works.
smile.gif
 You know these will come off a line. $128 could have been a few buck if they had put it on them all. I'd sit tight and fight the urge to change your initial intent. Had I noticed early on, I may have done as you.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:48 AM Post #490 of 5,933
goodvibes said:
  Yes, it likely will be. There's a bit of marketing in their descriptions but I like a lot of what they're doing. In this case they don't give the full nomenclature but just enough to differentiate from the full size 8ch version to protect thenselves. In the end, it will come down to execution.
Click to expand...

Sounds nice, probably will get one to.
Do you when they will start shipping?
 
 
kkcc said:
Did you back the IEM perk? Do you think we need that? I'm sitting on a wave32 @$208 ($168+40shippong) which I thought was reasonable to try for sth that just uses a mobile ess9018m DAC chip with run of the mills opa1652/1612 ok amps. Would really hate to have to send extra $128 to get it work without hiss.
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Aren't you getting something wrong?  If you want the ess9018 you have to add $68.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 10:54 AM Post #491 of 5,933
miyaichi said:
 
 

Aren't you getting something wrong?  If you want the ess9018 you have to add $68.
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This is exactly the problem being discussed about the site and options. All should have the ESS chip. The dual dac option gives you an additional DAC chip so that it can be used in differential DAC mode like in the DX90.

 
Jul 9, 2014 at 11:08 AM Post #494 of 5,933
miyaichi said:
  Sounds nice, probably will get one to.
Do you when they will start shipping?
 
 

Aren't you getting something wrong?  If you want the ess9018 you have to add $68.
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LOL no I don't want the ess9018k2m which is just a chip that chinese makers had put into their $300 run of the mills smartphones last year.  $68 get you two instead of one.  DX90 (~$400) also has two of them and a "dual mono" design similar to that of the XD128 sans the headphone out.  I quite liked my dx90 for the price and was thinking $208 (incl delivery) for wave32 was a decent deal to try sth from LH.  But then the these perks left me feeling otherwise now.  
 
I think most would happy if they ship 2015 Mar as they mentioned, but based on their track record with GO and yet to be seen Pulse I think we'll see delays.  Too bad they don't entertain refund request.
 
Jul 9, 2014 at 11:23 AM Post #495 of 5,933
kkcc said:
   
LOL no I don't want the ess9018k2m which is just a chip that chinese makers had put into their $300 run of the mills smartphones last year.  $68 get you two instead of one.  DX90 (~$400) also has two of them and a "dual mono" design similar to that of the XD128 sans the headphone out.  I quite liked my dx90 for the price and was thinking $208 (incl delivery) for wave32 was a decent deal to try sth from LH.  But then the these perks left me feeling otherwise now.  
 
I think most would happy if they ship 2015 Mar as they mentioned, but based on their track record with GO and yet to be seen Pulse I think we'll see delays.  Too bad they don't entertain refund request.
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Hmm, weird to pay for something what probably won't arrive in a year =/
 
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