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jude said:

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Just wondering, is it even physically possible to not hurt treble extension with such a small tip opening? This is a serious question: I honestly don't know! But from my experience it helps quite a lot to increase the extension by using tight and wide tips.
 
I would expect this to sound muffled by default. Unless it's a key feature of the design, of course. But I would still expect high frequencies to get lost. After all, isn't this exactly how the tube works for bass?

If you put a small bore tip on a larger nozzle, then yes it will constrict treble. But if you have a narrow nozzle to begin with (like Shure), then most likely those small bore tips are similar in diameter and it will not adversely affect treble response. This however is a generality, as the W4, SM64 and SM3 all have small diameter nozzles but benefit from larger bore tips.

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winegums said:

Not sure if this has been asked yet or talked about, but since the low pass filter is esentially a long tube won't the low end frequency be extremely out of phase? I was looking at two pictures of JH16's one freqphase and an original one. It looks like in order to bring the frequencies into phase Jerry had to change the distance the sound travels. The bass has the shortest tube where as the mids have a medium tube and the highs an even longer tube.
 
Not that I'm going to be getting a 846 I'm just expressing a concern that it might not be very phase correct.

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arnaud said:

One poster made an intelligent remark a few pages back about the phase shift occured by a few inches long duct relative the several meters long acoustic wavelength at that frequency. It's marginal.

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Interesting. If phase shift is no concern on the SE846, wouldn't that mean that JHA's Freqphase thing is just a marketing gag?

james444 said:

Interesting. If phase shift is no concern on the SE846, wouldn't that mean that JHA's Freqphase thing is just a marketing gag?

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FreqPhase stuff is about paying attention to how drivers recoup in the transition band and in particular tuning the LP/HP sections of the crossover to minimoze phase shifts. This is significant as, the higher the filter order, the larger phase shift.

There's always a strong influence from marketing in these tech talks provided by the makers, but talking to Jerry Harvey, I got a good impressions it wasn't fluff. The guy has been designing PA systems for long time before turning to in ear and is well aware of the issues with pooly implemented crossover (it's not as important as the drivers but not far behind, you can make or break a speaker sound by the quality of filter design upstream).

Now, JH expalins it as an issue wiith iems in that they're not time coherent since the tube lengths vary. But, AFAIK, 1) he's not mentioning the frequencies where it's most noticed (a quarter of a wavelength is over 2m at 50Hz, you tell me if you can hear a 30mm shift in driver , that is 1-2 degrees shift or 0.1-0.2ms delay), 2) even at frequencies where it really matters (midrange), he's not adding line delays, he's simply taking it into acccount in the crossover adjustments.

Bottom line, phase shift / time delay matters but it's frequency dependent and, in case of sub-bass region, we start to consider the distance corrections in the 1m range (subwooofer integration into a speaker system), not 30mm...

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aaf evo said:

How is everyone in the US able to get their hands on these?

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I think most of us posting impressions are in Asia.

jelt2359 said:

aaf evo said:

How is everyone in the US able to get their hands on these?

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I think most of us posting impressions are in Asia.

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Yea, both jelt2359 and I are from Singapore, a country in Southeast Asia. Btw, Jelt are you attending the Singapore Headfi Meet?

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myap2328 said:

are you attending the Singapore Headfi Meet?

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Where can I get more info on this?

23t23ds said:

myap2328 said:

are you attending the Singapore Headfi Meet?

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Where can I get more info on this?

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Here's the link.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/663367/singapore-meet-7-september-2013/510#post_9722622

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arnaud said:

you tell me if you can hear a 30mm shift in driver , that is 1-2 degrees shift or 0.1-0.2ms delay

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I would not underestimate the capabilities of the human body to perceive smallest details. It might just be a tiny difference, one might not even be able to explain it, but it could be a break in cohesion that throws one off.
How can you tell if somebody is standing behind you or even just looking at you? From the light the body emits or the change of wind? How is this even measurable in a well lit and wind-free mall?
 
I assume some people are capable of noticing a fragment in sound. Not that it matters much or that it is easily noticed, just saying that it can have different effects on different people. (Some don't care for feng shui, others couldn't live without it.)
 
Ultimately, any in-ear is a tool to build a connection between oneself and the music. Everybody has to find out their self how this connection is strongest and most convincing.
Physically, in case of the Shure SE846, a 0.3ms delay in bass (8° phase shift according to Shure) has an infinitely larger impact on sound than the use of a silver cable instead of copper.

ultrazino said:

I would not underestimate the capabilities of the human body to perceive smallest details. It might just be a tiny difference, one might not even be able to explain it, but it could be a break in cohesion that throws one off.
How can you tell if somebody is standing behind you or even just looking at you? From the light the body emits or the change of wind? How is this even measurable in a well lit and wind-free mall?

I assume some people are capable of noticing a fragment in sound. Not that it matters much or that it is easily noticed, just saying that it can have different effects on different people. (Some don't care for feng shui, others couldn't live without it.)

Ultimately, any in-ear is a tool to build a connection between oneself and the music. Everybody has to find out their self how this connection is strongest and most convincing.
Physically, in case of the Shure SE846, a 0.3ms delay in bass (8° phase shift according to Shure) has an infinitely larger impact on sound than the use of a silver cable instead of copper.

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Is this the same argument that caused Sennheiser to design the Orpheus with a upper range of 100,000 hertz so that only my dog could hear the high end?

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spook76 said:

Is this the same argument that caused Sennheiser to design the Orpheus with a upper range of 100,000 hertz so that only my dog could hear the high end?

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Spook76, the previous post is not an argument at all. It's just more speculative trolling from someone who has never heard the SE846.

truckdriver said:

 


Spook76, the previous post is not an argument at all. It's just more speculative trolling from someone who has never heard the SE846.

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How is that even considered trolling? It's quite an interesting way to see things I thought.

truckdriver said:

 


Spook76, the previous post is not an argument at all. It's just more speculative trolling from someone who has never heard the SE846.

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Ahh thank you Truckdriver I agree with you.

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uelover said:

How is that even considered trolling? It's quite an interesting way to see things I thought.

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With hundreds of choices of earphones, it makes no sense to constantly complain (from nearly day one on this thread) about the design implementation of the SE846 (that the complainer has never observed and tested).
 
The nonsense way of looking at anything is to not know anything about a product, yet complain that said product can't possible deliver as advertised. That bogus critique is missing one very important element, that being, the product itself for true scientific testing.
 
Now, all the complainer's credibility is lost. I can only conclude (that no matter what) this complainer will be out to “prove” his prejudice assertions.
 
Moral of the story: test the earphone before deciding it is flawed.

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spook76 said:

....Finally a question when did the word price get modified to price point. They mean exactly the same thing. George Orwell truly was a modern day prophet. Sorry personal rant on my part.

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No they don't mean the same thing to me. I use the term price point to mean 'range'. In this case the shures are $1000+, hence price point. So, to provide an example if two phones are being discussed and the first costs $1100 and the second $1350. I would describe their price point as $1000 - $1500. It's just the way I look at it that's all. Hope this clarifies my use.