The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread

[Filleri]

That must be one of the BEST post i have ever seen. Informative and HILARIOUS 

 

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

  Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)
 
First Installment - Prologue. Note: This is the first of an ongoing series of posts I plan to write comparing the old champ (K1000) with reigning champion (HD800), presumably to be collected as a review at a future point. Yes, Mjolnir 2 is probably woefully insufficient to reveal their full beauty, but I don't have 6k to drop on a WA5 at the moment, so I'll update this as my amp situation changes.
 
When I listen to the K1000, especially in the context of the HD800, one of the strongest associations I make is with the Gothic Cathedral of St. Peter of Beauvais:
 

 
 
Beauvais was the tallest cathedral in Europe at the time, pushing the technology of vaulted ceilings to its limits. It is regarded widely as "the Parthenon of French Gothic." However, after its choir collapsed and was rebuilt, and plans to build a nave (largest part of cathedral, where the congregants sit) never came to be, it became an oddity, an aspirational object as beautiful for its achievements as its failure to reach the goals it set for itself.
 
Such is the K1000. 
 
HD800 receives its share of criticism. "Not enough bass!" "Amp finicky!" "Sennheiser veil!" "Cold!" "Bright!" "Bad for anything except jazz and classical!" To the extent that these complaints are true (with the exception of the veil), they are doubly true of K1000. It is a bright headphone. There is not enough bass for most non-classical applications (and some classical). Perhaps the only time I hear a Sennheiser veil with HD800 is coming from K1000. These ear-speakers (worthier of the term than anything stax has produced) are definitely amp finicky: whereas a reliable vali (1 or 2) can make an HD800 sing, K1000 are barely cooperative with the much heftier Mjolnir 2 and very warm Amperax 1968 orange globes (but we're going to have to make do unless someone has a WA5 they care to lend me). On comfort it's not even close. K1000 slides around, and you're never quite sure whether it's positioned exactly right. God help you if you want them to stay positioned correctly as you recline. HD800 can sit comfortably on your ears in many different environments, including as you lie in bed (as I'm doing presently, with HD800). 
 
K1000 is a prima donna. She knows she's among the best. Bright amp? She will spit in your face. Insufficient power? Good luck getting anything out of her. To make the obligatory car analogy, if K1000 is a Lamborghini, HD800 is a Mercedes S Class, or maxed-out Tesla Model S. The rattle that @DavidMahler talked about? Eerily similar to that of my q701 (which, uninitiated and naive, I thought was an issue with the source or my hearing, lol). K1000 gives no schiits about her rattle, though, and will start flirting with the guy next to you if you mention it.
 
If I were playing bang/marry/kill, inevitably it would be K1000, HD800, Abyss (tee, hee).
 
I find myself listening with the grills swiveled open just wide enough so that they do not touch my ears, but not the full way (which necessitates much louder volumes, and higher chance of rattle, with certain piano frequencies and soprano registers.
 
I plan to spend future installments on (at least) solo piano, lieder, chamber music/string quartets, baroque music (including choral and opera), symphonic music post-1780, and opera (from Mozart), perhaps giving Wagner his own separate installment. Please let me know if there are any specific recordings, compositions, or composers you would like me to discuss.

 

Thanks for sharing about the Cathedral. I am inclined to research further into this now.
 
You do not need a WA5 for the HD800, nor is there a dichotomy between solely the Mjolnir 2, which is already a fantastic amplifier for the HD800 and beyond, and the Woo. The Mjolnir 2 allows you to skip over the black hole that is the $1K-2K range of amps, but you might consider something between $2k and 3K later.
 
Since I have not heard the K1000, I cannot comment on your analogies there, but that of the unfinished Cathedral with high and unrealistic aspirations really clarified things.
 
Nice post.

 

[ezekiel77]

  Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)
 

 
Wow. Glad to have read that. Excellent analogies!

 

[FLTWS]

  Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)...
 
I plan to spend future installments on (at least) solo piano, lieder, chamber music/string quartets, baroque music (including choral and opera), symphonic music post-1780, and opera (from Mozart), perhaps giving Wagner his own separate installment. Please let me know if there are any specific recordings, compositions, or composers you would like me to discuss.
 

 
Anything covering the periods, forms, or composers you mention works for me. Most commentaries / reviews I've read relating to high-ish end audio electronics and (headphone) transducers, since I've returned to the land of audiophilia, tend focus on the use of more current and popular forms of music in evaluating sonic qualities.
 
I myself have been keeping a diary of my in-home headphone evaluations in a quest for my classical music listening "ɡrāl" in an H/P system.
 
I did a ridiculously long tome on my time with the 800 and the sound of a dozen different recorded versions of Mahler 5 / first movement (in addition to my primary 5 evaluation recordings). Lots of fun and ear-opening for me actually, but hard on the carpal tunnel syndrome keeping notes and typing them up.

 

[McClelland]

 

I'll be looking forward to your report on the balanced system. Changing Mjolnir 2/Gumby to balanced cables improved SQ notably to my ear with Audeze LCD-X and Senn HD800 HPs.

 

[McClelland]

  I've been toying with LCDX. I would get it for solo piano and very small ensembles, as well as making older/poorly recorded recordings sound better. Obviously it can't compete with HD800 in terms of soundstage, neutrality, detail retrieval, etc.

 
 

   
The Lcd-X would be what I call the weakest out of my 3 headphones but it is still pretty darn good. I would say the headphones I own are all within a couple of percent of each other and more different flavors than one is better. I like the Lcd-x with electronic and rap.

I've been enjoying both HPs but am still new to the comparison and haven't had as much time as I thought I might to compare.  I have had the impression the LCD-Xs maybe particularly sweet listening to recordings with a limited number of acoustic stringed instruments and vocals. Also tenor sax.  The HD800 speed and clarity shines with complex recordings. I continue to have the sense that my experience of both HPs is influenced by the physical/tactile feel of them over my ears and the cueing of a mood when I put either of them on: I'm in an open, light-filled space with no ceiling when wearing the HD800 and an intimate, small club or music hall with wonderful acoustics with the LCD-X.  I wouldn't have expected this tactile dimension to have such an influence, but I think it is playing a role in what I anticipate, just as knowing I'm going to hear live music at different familiar venues has an effect on what I am looking forward to.

 

[etc6849]

My newly purchased HD800.

Did you request/or have the frequency response from Sennheiser for comparison? The request is a part of the website registration form.

 

[FLTWS]

My newly purchased HD800.

 
I'm seriously contemplating a buy of the HD800 even as I continue to demo others. I'll have to remember to post the graph I get.

 

[FLTWS]

   
 
I've been enjoying both HPs but am still new to the comparison and haven't had as much time as I thought I might to compare.  I have had the impression the LCD-Xs maybe particularly sweet listening to recordings with a limited number of acoustic stringed instruments and vocals. Also tenor sax.  The HD800 speed and clarity shines with complex recordings. I continue to have the sense that my experience of both HPs is influenced by the physical/tactile feel of them over my ears and the cueing of a mood when I put either of them on: I'm in an open, light-filled space with no ceiling when wearing the HD800 and an intimate, small club or music hall with wonderful acoustics with the LCD-X.  I wouldn't have expected this tactile dimension to have such an influence, but I think it is playing a role in what I anticipate, just as knowing I'm going to hear live music at different familiar venues has an effect on what I am looking forward to.

Interesting comment, I think you may be on to something.

 

[thecrow]

My newly purchased HD800.

With my chart #314xx i have a more gradual/steady climb from 3k to 6k

Perhaps why even though they're bright ive never thought of it as a sharp peak.

Perhaps mine put together on a bad quality control day

 

[ruthieandjohn]

@boisemincrieff, truly FABULOUS post, lovingly described and lavishly illustrated, with great humor. I really look forward to the next installments.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

@boisemincrieff, truly FABULOUS post, lovingly described and lavishly illustrated, with great humor. I really look forward to the next installments.

Thank you for your kind words! I've been listening for less than 24 hours, and I'm already absolutely addicted to K1000 sound. We'll see whether it's a halo effect, but they've brought me nearly to tears twice now. Some EQ is advisable, however. I already EQ the HD800 a bit:
 

 
However, this has proved insufficient for K1000, so I have added to my stable:

 
I will as necessary iterate further to find the perfect EQ. Without going into too much detail here, EQ is almost required to make the headphone listen-able. 

 

[MikePio]

Hey guys! 
 
I have been listening to my HD800 (unmodded classic) and have decided to change the stock cable. So i got a copper cable (as to my knowledge the original is silver plated with copper?) and to my surprise the cable really did make an audible difference that was clearly evident while switching back and forth between the original cable. The all copper wire seemed to accentuate the bass quantity and provide a more euphonic sound in general and it did tame the HD800's down (never really had an issue with this though). The problem is that the soundstage is drastically decreased. It is almost like with the original cable everything is pushed slightly back making the sound almost give the feeling that it is coming from thin air and the transparency and resolution is amazing. With the copper cable the sound feels more intimate and the mids are brought forward while the soundstage is much more like a sphere and much more similar to a regular headphone. I know that many people pair these with an all copper wire, does anyone notice this happening when comparing to the stock? Perhaps my setup is to blame but now I am shipping back the copper cable and ordered a only silver one instead. Anyone else have a only silver cable with the HD800's? Cheers.  

 

[Hansotek]

  Hey guys! 
 
I have been listening to my HD800 (unmodded classic) and have decided to change the stock cable. So i got a copper cable (as to my knowledge the original is silver plated with copper?) and to my surprise the cable really did make an audible difference that was clearly evident while switching back and forth between the original cable. The all copper wire seemed to accentuate the bass quantity and provide a more euphonic sound in general and it did tame the HD800's down (never really had an issue with this though). The problem is that the soundstage is drastically decreased. It is almost like with the original cable everything is pushed slightly back making the sound almost give the feeling that it is coming from thin air and the transparency and resolution is amazing. With the copper cable the sound feels more intimate and the mids are brought forward while the soundstage is much more like a sphere and much more similar to a regular headphone. I know that many people pair these with an all copper wire, does anyone notice this happening when comparing to the stock? Perhaps my setup is to blame but now I am shipping back the copper cable and ordered a only silver one instead. Anyone else have a only silver cable with the HD800's? Cheers.  

 
There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to that shrinking soundstage. A brighter cable, for one, can increase perceived soundstage size. But every cable is different. The end result will depend heavily on the design philosophy. Boiling it down to just copper vs. silver is a bit of an oversimplification. A copper cable can easily be better or worse than a silver one, based on the design.
 
Basically, it boils down to 3 factors: Capacitance (the cable's ability to store an electrical charge), Inductance (the ratio of voltage to the rate of change in current), and the Resistance/Conductivity (how difficult it is to pass an electrical current through the cable). Resistance is generally the value that varies most from cable to cable. This is determined by the conductivity of the metal and the shape of the wire itself.
 
The conductivity rating of a metal is measured relative to the International Annealed Copper Standard (IACS). This shows how conductive a given metal is relative to the copper standard (which is 100) in terms of percentage. So here are some common values for cable materials:
 
Copper = 100 IACS
OFC Copper = 101 IACS
OCC Copper = 103 IACS
Silver = 106 IACS
 
So, in other words, a silver wire will be 6% more conductive than a copper wire of the same shape.
 
The next (and perhaps most important determining factor) is the size and shape of the wire. How thick is it? How far does the signal have to go? You can figure that out using a calculator like this one: http://www.cirris.com/learning-center/calculators/133-wire-resistance-calculator-table
 
For a 6ft cable, look how much resistance drops as you scale up in size:
 
24AWG = 0.154 ohm
18AWG = 0.038 ohm
14AWG = 0.015 ohm
12AWG = 0.010 ohm
10AWG = 0.006 ohm
8 AWG = 0.004 ohm
 
So, you can see from the numbers above, a signal traveling through a thin 24AWG wire encounters 38.5 times more resistance than a signal passing through a thicker 8AWG wire.
 
These numbers also vary with length. If we double the length of the 8AWG wire from 6 feet to 12 feet, the resistance will change proportionally from 0.004 ohm to 0.008 ohm.
 
So you have to look at the whole picture to determine what you actually have with the cable. If we start multiplying these numbers together, we can see a 6ft 12AWG cable (0.0094 ohms) actually has 57% more resistance than a 10AWG copper cable of the same length (0.006 ohms).
 
Other things play a factor too, like the quality of connectors and overall craftsmanship, but there is a lot of marketing speak that convolutes the basics in differentiating one type of cable from another. It would take far too long to try and cover it all here. But hopefully, this helps clear up the picture a bit so it makes it easier to understand what you are actually getting. Perhaps with some further analysis of the differences between the cable you ordered and the stock Sennheiser cable, you can find a cable that is more to your liking.
 
Cheers.

 

 

[ruthieandjohn]

   
There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to that shrinking soundstage. A brighter cable, for one, can increase perceived soundstage size. But every cable is different. The end result will depend heavily on the design philosophy. Boiling it down to just copper vs. silver is a bit of an oversimplification. A copper cable can easily be better or worse than a silver one, based on the design..
 
Cheers.

 

Wow!  Not only the best post I have read today (and I even re-read some of mine!

), it is the best treatment of what the scientific basis, with realistic values as examples, for cables affecting the sound of the headphone.  Wonderful post!