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Sony MH1 R&D Story ...and discussion. - Page 14

post #196 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbug View Post

if 3 mm away is rin's idea of 'shallow' insertion then I must be at least 1 cm off.  Pretty sure he likes to stick things ultra deep where as the mh1c looks like the advertising pictures when I use them.

 

That might explain the extra bass Rin measured, but in a pm Sead also mentioned to me that he's concerned Rin might have got a bad copy of the MH1C if the bass is like that...

post #197 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

While it's true that the standard applications on smartphones don't have a very good EQ, have you tried Neutron player in Android?  It uses all the Q slopes and octave widths you're so very fond of ...

 

Using the MH1...

 

- start Neutron

- click on settings

- scroll down to and click on "reset gain and EQ"

- scroll up and click on "equalizer"

- set low-band gain to -4.07

- set high-band gain to +4.07

 

I noticed some users complained (on a different site) the volume isn't high enough in these when set to max in their phone, which I think is true as well... so a portable amplifier might help too, like the iBasso D-Zero or something?

 


 

Yes I have--but the limit of 4 bands (including one that's only a low shelf and one that's only a high shelf) is very limiting, not really better than a 10 band graphic EQ.  I've asked the developer if he can include more bands or better yet include an impulse convolver.  Then I can shape the EQ however I want on the computer and export the impulse response directly to the phone.

post #198 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

While it's true that the standard applications on smartphones don't have a very good EQ, have you tried Neutron player in Android?  It uses all the Q slopes and octave widths you're so very fond of ...

 

Using the MH1...

 

- start Neutron

- click on settings

- scroll down to and click on "reset gain and EQ"

- scroll up and click on "equalizer"

- set low-band gain to -4.07

- set high-band gain to +4.07

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Yes I have--but the limit of 4 bands (including one that's only a low shelf and one that's only a high shelf) is very limiting, not really better than a 10 band graphic EQ.

 

I agree. Plus, be aware that the low cutoff frequency defaults to 250Hz and the high one to 6000Hz. It's still an excellent player though, imo.

post #199 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post


I agree. Plus, be aware that the low cutoff frequency defaults to 250Hz and the high one to 6000Hz. It's still an excellent player though, imo.

 

The only real use I've found for Neutron's EQ is for the Ety MC5, where I just need to counteract a single resonance frequency at 7-8kHz and add a bass boost for them to sound good.  Other Etys would also be good candidates.  Any other phone I've tried has too complex an FR profile for Neutron's 4-band EQ.

post #200 of 232
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post
Any other phone I've tried has too complex an FR profile for Neutron's 4-band EQ.

 

I think you enjoy the ride more than the actual destination.

 

Try Accudio - http://www.head-fi.org/t/637889/accudio-accurate-audio-player

post #201 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

I think you enjoy the ride more than the actual destination.

 

Try Accudio - http://www.head-fi.org/t/637889/accudio-accurate-audio-player

And did you know that I am about to bust that snake-oil-oriented app? ph34r.gif

post #202 of 232
Originally Posted by udauda View Post

 

And did you know that I am about to bust that snake-oil-oriented app? ph34r.gif

 

 

Looking forward to it!  I'll link to your article in the new thread I just created, then.

 

I am planning on comparing my JVC FXD80 on it to a Sony Jienne, since they both score very high in 'EQ response', and both have very similar CSD.

post #203 of 232

- deleted wrong thread srry -

post #204 of 232
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

That might explain the extra bass Rin measured, but in a pm Sead also mentioned to me that he's concerned Rin might have got a bad copy of the MH1C if the bass is like that...

Those bass levels are constant as long as the seal is good, regardless of insertion, unless you can't get a good seal via shallow, but that will mean bigger tips. What can Sead use as a reference to state the bass levels are off? Both of their raw graphs coincide well...

post #205 of 232
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Those bass levels are constant as long as the seal is good, regardless of insertion, unless you can't get a good seal via shallow, but that will mean bigger tips. What can Sead use as a reference to state the bass levels are off? Both of their raw graphs coincide well...

 

If you take 1kHz as reference point for graph by Sead and Rin, then look at Joe's reversed EQ graph, you will notice Sead's and Joe's graph both show a +10dB bump in bass @ 20Hz, while Rin's is much higher, at almost 15dB+ on either compensated or raw. One of Rin's even shows an almost +20dB bump. I'll think that's pretty significant in difference in log scale.

post #206 of 232
Quote:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Those bass levels are constant as long as the seal is good, regardless of insertion, unless you can't get a good seal via shallow, but that will mean bigger tips. What can Sead use as a reference to state the bass levels are off? Both of their raw graphs coincide well...

 

Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

If you take 1kHz as reference point for graph by Sead and Rin, then look at Joe's reversed EQ graph, you will notice Sead's and Joe's graph both show a +10dB bump in bass @ 20Hz, while Rin's is much higher, at almost 15dB+ on either compensated or raw. One of Rin's even shows an almost +20dB bump. I'll think that's pretty significant in difference in log scale.

 

 

Inks, you are right, low frequency analysis <1kHz is supposed to be pretty much independent of the insertion deep, as long as sealing is secured with a proper eartip.
 
Further we need to mention that in the real world every sample is unique and it has it's own frequency response, so a slightly difference among the samples is to be expected. Normally frequency response stays within few dB from the average response (in MH1 case is ~10dB difference between 20Hz and 1kHz).  But those ~15+dB that are mentioned here would definitely be classified as a failure in the production line.
 
So either we are talking about huge differences in our measurement- equipment or methods, or that sample got damaged somehow after it left the factory, or it's fake?    
 
BTW, I'm performing measurement using middle size eartip. I have defined Insertion deep reference point at flange split-point. In that case it is very easily to repeat measurement and get consistent data even in the treble range, see pic below. 

1000


Edited by Sead - 12/3/12 at 6:22am
post #207 of 232

All I know is that they have too much bass for me to enjoy them without some modification. I think them a steal after. Not really my sig as they always have too much for me but they are informative and balanced throughout the other ranges.

post #208 of 232

Sead, i'd like to thank you and the rest of your team for your work, i think that the MH1 is a great product that performs above its price. I am one of those guys that tend to continuously listen to music for many hours per day without breaks, and the smooth signature of these enables me to do this without fatigue.

 

That's why i really like the treble on these, you have achieved a really nice balance between detail retrieval and smoothness. The mids are also nice and musical, but i have to agree with goodvibes on the bass. It has a nice extension, but it's too much for me, and it's also lacks speed and control. I am no expert, but to my ears mids and highs seem to be better executed so i think letting the bass overshadow the rest of the FR isn't flattering to the MH1s sound, plus they can be fatiguing with bass heavy music.

 

Of course i can and in fact do use an equalizer with these. A 10->0 db cut in the 30-300hz range makes them sound wonderful to my ears, and a 6->0 db cut negates fatigue without making them loose their bass-heavy sound. Still not everyone has access to an equalizer and it's kind of a pain to have to match settings between different implementations with different numbers of bands.

 

I hope i don't sound overly critical, my intention was to offer some direct and honest feedback which is something consumers rarely have the opportunity to do. I really feel i have to thank you for this unique opportunity, i don't know exactly what your presence here entails, but i am sure it isn't trivial.

 

I also hope we will see more products from you guys. A more neutral offering and/or a dual microdriver configuration would probably make head-fi explode biggrin.gif.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 12/3/12 at 8:19am
post #209 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post

Sead, i'd like to thank you and the rest of your team for your work, i think that the MH1 is a great product that performs above its price. I am one of those guys that tend to continuously listen to music for many hours per day without breaks, and the smooth signature of these enables me to do this without fatigue.

 

That's why i really like the treble on these, you have achieved a really nice balance between detail retrieval and smoothness. The mids are also nice and musical, but i have to agree with goodvibes on the bass. It has a nice extension, but it's too much for me, and it's also lacks speed and control. I am no expert, but to my ears mids and highs seem to be better executed so i think letting the bass overshadow the rest of the FR isn't flattering to the MH1s sound, plus they can be fatiguing with bass heavy music.

 

Of course i can and in fact do use an equalizer with these. A 10->0 db cut in the 30-300hz range makes them sound wonderful to my ears, and a 6->0 db cut negates fatigue without making them loose their bass-heavy sound. Still not everyone has access to an equalizer and it's kind of a pain to have to match settings between different implementations with different numbers of bands.

 

I hope i don't sound overly critical, my intention was to offer some direct and honest feedback which is something consumers rarely have the opportunity to do. I really feel i have to thank you for this unique opportunity, i don't know exactly what your presence here entails, but i am sure it isn't trivial.

 

I also hope we will see more products from you guys. A more neutral offering and/or a dual microdriver configuration would probably make head-fi explode biggrin.gif.

 

Thanks, I really appreciate your opinion and at the same time i would like to welcome others as well to share their honest views. So guys, feel free to express what you like/dislike around MH1 sound? Actually this is what's all about, to collect all that feedback that will hopefully result in even better sounding products in the future. smily_headphones1.gif


Edited by Sead - 12/6/12 at 4:50am
post #210 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sead View Post

 

Thanks, I really appreciate your opinion and at the same time i would like to welcome others as well to share their honest views. So guys, feel free to express what you like/dislike around MH1 sound? Actually this is what's all about, to collect all that feedback that will hopefully result in even better sounding products in the future. smily_headphones1.gif

 

Thanks for coming here to answer our questions, Sead.

 

I wanted to ask about the MH750. I read that it was based on the FR of the MH1. Were you involved in the MH750? How does it differ?

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