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New DENON "Music Maniac" & "Urban Raver" Lines: D7100, D600, D400 & C300 Appreciation Thread - Page 71

post #1051 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

I'm not sure what you want by "bass". If you're looking for something with a little bass bloom, orthos aren't the way to go. Orthos are generally very tight and controlled with bass. The Mad Dogs have bass that can go down, but it's very controlled and balanced by the rest of the spectrum, so it's not overpowered. 


I am looking for powerful bass (not overwhelming or muddy). You just helped me narrow down my list to M-100, Momentum and Ultrasone Signature DJ.  I am also eliminating Yamaha based on the poor design and the AKG K267 Tiesto launch is too far away.

post #1052 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post


I am looking for powerful bass (not overwhelming or muddy). You just helped me narrow down my list to M-100, Momentum and Ultrasone Signature DJ.  I am also eliminating Yamaha based on the poor design and the AKG K267 Tiesto launch is too far away.

 

I'm guessing you're looking at something exclusively sealed? You may check out the AKG K550. I'm not caught up on the M-100, so I'm not sure on that, but any ultrasone is pretty bass heavy (but also pretty out of control bass heavy). 

post #1053 of 1409

At the recent NYC meet I tried K550 with Cowon A3 as well as Burson 160D and they lacking sub-bass with both, even Burson's owner agreed to it

post #1054 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooster View Post

Burn in is probably more about getting your auditory system used to the peculiarities of equipment rather than changing the equipment itself. What does not sound right to you to begin with may sound ok or great after your ears and brain learn to compensate.

I hear this way too many times. It's not ideal at all. How about if you don't let yourself get used to it.

 

Out of the box hear it for 2 hours. Burn it in for 300 hours without touching the headphone. Then hear it again for 2 hours, using the same setup, same tracks, same way of wearing it. How about in the first instance you heard very sharp, distinct, painful peaks around the 8khz range BUT in the second instance these peaks are non existant.

Is that what you call getting used to the peculiarities of the equipment?

post #1055 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooster View Post

Burn in is probably more about getting your auditory system used to the peculiarities of equipment rather than changing the equipment itself. What does not sound right to you to begin with may sound ok or great after your ears and brain learn to compensate.

 

Note that some listeners here do have access to multiple copies of the same product. And some brands/models benefit more from burn-in more than others.

 

Unless these manufacturers have some special magic in being able to make the same product sound the same at box opening, then different after one copy has been burnt in, I wouldn't exactly say that it's placebo.

 

Naturally each individual is entitled to decide for themselves if they're a believer of burn-in or not. Personally for me, I'm a believer of burning in dynamic drivers but less so for balanced armatures. I'm also a believer of burn-in of OpAmps/DACs but less so for IC cables.

post #1056 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by DestryGleason View Post

 

Well thank you! 

 

I wish that Denon wouldn't have chosen this direction with this new line of headphones. Just seems lazy in my opinion. And like most people have been saying on the forums, they are aiming for the Dr Dre crowd. Which is pitiful. Oh well though.

 

Sincerely, 

 

There may be some truth to the Dr Dre Beats accusations. The D600's styling and sound, though vastly superior to Beats, is certainly reminiscent of Beats. I hate to say this, but I think Denon thought it could have its cake and eat it too--that's to say, they wanted to deepen their market penetration by appealing to the Beats crowd while simultaneously retaining their audiophile fan base. But that's sort of like inviting Congo cannibals to dine with English aristocrats: a strategy doomed from its inception. Personally, all I wanted was an unambiguous upgrade to the D2000. What I got instead was a mixed bag of improvements and  big new problems. Maybe, some day soon, Denon will remember the humble audiophile and release something new just for him.

post #1057 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

I'm guessing you're looking at something exclusively sealed? You may check out the AKG K550. I'm not caught up on the M-100, so I'm not sure on that, but any ultrasone is pretty bass heavy (but also pretty out of control bass heavy). 


Thank you for the recommendations.  I auditioned the K550 and they aren't for me.  They had a poor seal resulting in almost anemic bass.  I agree with you regarding most of Ultrasone's line.  If you have occasion to try the Signature Pro, I think you would be pleasantly surprised regarding the tightness and accuracy of the bass as well as the balanced overall sound.  I believe their Signature line is going for a more audiophile-friendly and IMO superior level of sound reproduction.

post #1058 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantScareMe View Post

I hear this way too many times. It's not ideal at all. How about if you don't let yourself get used to it.

 

Out of the box hear it for 2 hours. Burn it in for 300 hours without touching the headphone. Then hear it again for 2 hours, using the same setup, same tracks, same way of wearing it. How about in the first instance you heard very sharp, distinct, painful peaks around the 8khz range BUT in the second instance these peaks are non existant.

Is that what you call getting used to the peculiarities of the equipment?

 

 

Burn in won't get rid of massive peaks as you say.  Measurements have been done on the effect before, and the results are very minimal, so minimal that they're most likely before the threshold of human hearing.  Saying going from 'distinct, painful peaks' to 'non-existant' peaks is exaggeration, and most likely confirmation bias.  Also note the auditory system is still at play.  Of all our senses, the ability to properly remember sound is our weakest.  No way will you be able to properly memorize a headphone's sonic characteristics 300 hours after you listened to it to decipher the very subtle (if any) differences accumulated from the burn-in process.  You'd need to A/B them side by side.  Yes you can get multiple models of the same product, but looking at the measurements of the D4/6/71 line, I'd be hard-pressed to say that they have a very consistent manufacturing process, either.

post #1059 of 1409

Pain isn't that hard to remember, especially when a control variable is used (the d7k was much much more sharper than a used d2k. After burn in of the d7k they were about the same. All else as much as possible remained invariant (volume matching, source, tracks......)).

 

Pain and peaks was the only thing I looked out for. I knew it's near impossible to remember anything else like about the bass, soundstage, detailing, tone and so on. Painful peaks and sibilance are a bit different, though they too do rely on a psychological element, it's less than all else in my experience. Measurements don't factor the way the human ear interprets sound waves, so their use is limited as far as i'm concerned. Not useless. Useful for some purposes only. 

 

The difference between a distinct razor peak and none isn't that magical. Just like 2/3db for me and my hearing. 

post #1060 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantScareMe View Post

Pain isn't that hard to remember, especially when a control variable is used (the d7k was much much more sharper than a used d2k. After burn in of the d7k they were about the same. All else as much as possible remained invariant (volume matching, source, tracks......)).

 

Pain and peaks was the only thing I looked out for. I knew it's near impossible to remember anything else like about the bass, soundstage, detailing, tone and so on. Painful peaks and sibilance are a bit different, though they too do rely on a psychological element, it's less than all else in my experience. Measurements don't factor the way the human ear interprets sound waves, so their use is limited as far as i'm concerned. Not useless. Useful for some purposes only. 

 

The difference between a distinct razor peak and none isn't that magical. Just like 2/3db for me and my hearing. 


Pain and sibilance are immediate dealbreakers for me, burn-in or no burn-in.

post #1061 of 1409

(edit)


Edited by DestryGleason - 9/24/12 at 9:48am
post #1062 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmollusk View Post

 

There may be some truth to the Dr Dre Beats accusations. The D600's styling and sound, though vastly superior to Beats, is certainly reminiscent of Beats. I hate to say this, but I think Denon thought it could have its cake and eat it too--that's to say, they wanted to deepen their market penetration by appealing to the Beats crowd while simultaneously retaining their audiophile fan base. But that's sort of like inviting Congo cannibals to dine with English aristocrats: a strategy doomed from its inception. Personally, all I wanted was an unambiguous upgrade to the D2000. What I got instead was a mixed bag of improvements and  big new problems. Maybe, some day soon, Denon will remember the humble audiophile and release something new just for him.

Exactly how I feel about it. Hopefully they will see what they have done. I agree with you that the sound is superior to Beats, but just not what audiophiles would be looking for. 

post #1063 of 1409

Hello guys I was just wondering if D600s are a good upgrade for me, after reading all the 71 pages I have quite mixed feelings about the D600s. I currently have DT 770pro and I listen a lot of bass music (DnB and older dubstep mostly) so bass is very important to me. I'd like a significant upgrade in sound quality and bass but not super expensive headphones :D Should I concider D5000 over D600? Feel free to suggest any other headphones too!

 

I discovered these forums couple days ago and now I'm really hooked.

post #1064 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratok View Post

Hello guys I was just wondering if D600s are a good upgrade for me, after reading all the 71 pages I have quite mixed feelings about the D600s. I currently have DT 770pro and I listen a lot of bass music (DnB and older dubstep mostly) so bass is very important to me. I'd like a significant upgrade in sound quality and bass but not super expensive headphones :D Should I concider D5000 over D600? Feel free to suggest any other headphones too!

 

I discovered these forums couple days ago and now I'm really hooked.


If you listen to alot of bass music, I would not recommend the D600.  Here are some other alternatives I am strongly considering:

 

V-Moda M-100

Sennheiser Momentum

AKG Tiesto K267

Yamaha Pro 500

Ultrasone Signature DJ

PSB M4U2/1

post #1065 of 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratok View Post

Hello guys I was just wondering if D600s are a good upgrade for me, after reading all the 71 pages I have quite mixed feelings about the D600s. I currently have DT 770pro and I listen a lot of bass music (DnB and older dubstep mostly) so bass is very important to me. I'd like a significant upgrade in sound quality and bass but not super expensive headphones :D Should I concider D5000 over D600? Feel free to suggest any other headphones too!

 

I discovered these forums couple days ago and now I'm really hooked.

 

Hi there! Welcome to the head-fi forums!!!!! 

 

The DT770 are a really great pair of headphones, so I'm glad you're enjoying them. If you'd like bass that's tight I'd suggest reading on the Hifiman HE-400. It's about the same price range. What are you plugging your DT770 into?

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