Quote:

anaxilus said:

 
Obviously

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Please what can you do? Write to the conviction? or write against what came to be heard? Just so in the end, the ball remains flat and no one says: What a hype. I'm sorry: It would not be the reality. In this case. I can not force you to believe me. That's their personal decision. But I can very well live with it, because I know how good a Jecklin float is.

@ michaelxray:
 
Did you get a chance to A/B the new Floats side-by-side with the Stax SR-007 or SR-009 on the same rig? The Stax are my current favorites, so I'd love to know how they compare in terms of frequency response and overall tonal balance, specifically.
 
Also would you mind elaborating a bit on the circumstances of your trying these new Floats? Where did you hear them? I think it would help if people had a better idea of where you were coming from, and what your relationship is to the product in question (are you just an enthusiast who likes the Floats? Do you know the designers?).
 
We get so many of these types of claims every day, so a bit of skepticism is a healthy approach. I'm optimistic about these, especially as Mr. Jecklin has had a lot of input on the project. If these are as good as is being claimed, then they have nothing to hide, and when more people get to hear them the word will spread. I myself plan to get them and try them too at some point.
 
 

Quote:

muppetface said:

@ michaelxray:
 
Did you get a chance to A/B the new Floats side-by-side with the Stax SR-007 or SR-009 on the same rig? The Stax are my current favorites, so I'd love to know how they compare in terms of frequency response and overall tonal balance, specifically.
 
Also would you mind elaborating a bit on the circumstances of your trying these new Floats? Where did you hear them? I think it would help if people had a better idea of where you were coming from, and what your relationship is to the product in question (are you just an enthusiast who likes the Floats? Do you know the designers?).
 
We get so many of these types of claims every day, so a bit of skepticism is a healthy approach. I'm optimistic about these, especially as Mr. Jecklin has had a lot of input on the project. If these are as good as is being claimed, then they have nothing to hide, and when more people get to hear them the word will spread. I myself plan to get them and try them too at some point.
 
 

Click to expand...

 
 
 
You are right.
 
Yes, I know Mr. Stein (Designer) personally. I heard the float QA in Gering. Manufacturer (Home). The Stax 009 I do not know. All other Stax, incl. the 007er models, I can put into a relationship. In a relationship with the float QA. And basically that's no problem:
 
You have something on Stax (perhaps familiar sound character), which does not change. A 007er, whether in the treble a little less or more, remains a Stax. The same applies to a Sennheiser Orpheus or Orpheus baby. (The character of Orpheus was not the character of a Stax), ...example.
 
 
The same can be found in Beyer or AKG's. Even a Stax Lambda shows in principle the exact limits that apply to a 007 also. Of course, things happen. This is always the case. Finer, bigger, better soundstage, more clear ... But this is the headphone development.
 
A BeyerT1 has more to offer than a Beyer DT880. And yet, a T1 is not the audibility (transparency, air) from a Stax Lambda - as an example.
 
what I'm saying: There are limits. An AKG K1000 was able to achieve something that not could play any other AKG models. Why? Not because it was the tenth improved diaphragm and the same principle. No. Because the principle changes (construction). Even a K701, K702 (now up to date) can not make the head room, like a K1000.
 
What we want as a headphone fans? quality!  what else
 
"so a bit of skepticism is a healthy approach."
 
Completely correct.
 
But skepticism should not block the way.
 I can remember well: in 1989, when there came a K1000, there were many voices:
 What is this construction? For what good is that? etc
 A little later: Oh, what a room. Oh, more precision
 People always tend toward skepticism. This is normal for our lives. And also correct.
 
Consider the development of Audez'e. Skepticism? Yes, and rightly so.
 I had all three: LCD2 (rev 1), LCD2 (Rev2) and LCD3. All different.
 And yet, same family.
 I'm not hyper, I'm no intellectual property, and I do not, in principle, whether the name Sennheiser, Audeze, Hifiman, Stax, Jecklin ...
 I am fan of headphones. This is important. If a company makes a good step, I'm a fan here. No matter what name.
 Mr. Jecklin has also an advantage. He is not a new to the scene, but for over 40 years standing. If such a man again takes a step, my ears are very long. And my big interest.
 
 That's the whole background. Nothing more.

Well, michaelxray, you seem to be Otwin, the user with different former accounts on hifi-forum.de (the largest German audio/video-forum) and you're completely banned there.
 
I really don't want to offend or insult you, you have like every body else the right to say what you want to say, but personally out of my experience, I can't take your opinions seriously, from all that I've read from you written in German in the last years.
 
You tend to hype every new and expansive pair of headphones in your typical florid writing style in German, as well as some cables and other equipment and some people also say, as you can read somewhere on the German hifi-forum.de, that it sometimes seems that you get paid for writing your "opinions".
 
I don't know whether this is right or not and I really don't care in the end.
 
You have your (few) fans on the German open-end-music.de-forum, but most you've written in your long history of writing, is -simply put- unreproductible for me and many others.
 
This is only my opinion out of all I've read from you. I really think you've hyped a lot already in the last years.
 
That said, maybe you're right and the new Float-set is an outstanding and superb can/amp-set. But whether this is the hard fact or not, only time will tell.
(Well, with "only time will tell" I mean my own experiences and the experiences of many others, that want to try out the new Float sometime, after it's available.)
 
Based on your former reviews in German, I'm sorry, but I can't take the correctness of your opinions for granted.
 
But please don't be offended, it's just my personal reception of what you've written about other cans/amps/cables in the past.
 
Maybe the new Float sounds unbelievably amazing, but at the moment I'm very very very very very skeptical about that.
 
Greetings from Germany,
 
Frank

Frank,
 
People have their free speech. That's okay. If you're an HF user, you have an interest in a negative image. Are you an open-end users, you have an interest in a positive image. This is normal.
what flowery for you, is a tool for other people - musical language.
what joy for a mathematician, is value-free for a computer.
My job is to evaluate as a headphone fan, with ears and heart
If it is important to you as an HF-man, representing negative things, then you will probably have a reason to show negative things.
 
Anyway, ... I have no problem with it.
 

Quote:

michaelxray said:

 
 
 
You are right.
 
Yes, I know Mr. Stein (Designer) personally. I heard the float QA in Gering. Manufacturer (Home). The Stax 009 I do not know. All other Stax, incl. the 007er models, I can put into a relationship. In a relationship with the float QA. And basically that's no problem:
 
You have something on Stax (perhaps familiar sound character), which does not change. A 007er, whether in the treble a little less or more, remains a Stax. The same applies to a Sennheiser Orpheus or Orpheus baby. (The character of Orpheus was not the character of a Stax), ...example.
 
 
The same can be found in Beyer or AKG's. Even a Stax Lambda shows in principle the exact limits that apply to a 007 also. Of course, things happen. This is always the case. Finer, bigger, better soundstage, more clear ... But this is the headphone development.
 
A BeyerT1 has more to offer than a Beyer DT880. And yet, a T1 is not the audibility (transparency, air) from a Stax Lambda - as an example.
 
what I'm saying: There are limits. An AKG K1000 was able to achieve something that not could play any other AKG models. Why? Not because it was the tenth improved diaphragm and the same principle. No. Because the principle changes (construction). Even a K701, K702 (now up to date) can not make the head room, like a K1000.
 
What we want as a headphone fans? quality!  what else
 
"so a bit of skepticism is a healthy approach."
 
Completely correct.
 
But skepticism should not block the way.
 I can remember well: in 1989, when there came a K1000, there were many voices:
 What is this construction? For what good is that? etc
 A little later: Oh, what a room. Oh, more precision
 People always tend toward skepticism. This is normal for our lives. And also correct.
 
Consider the development of Audez'e. Skepticism? Yes, and rightly so.
 I had all three: LCD2 (rev 1), LCD2 (Rev2) and LCD3. All different.
 And yet, same family.
 I'm not hyper, I'm no intellectual property, and I do not, in principle, whether the name Sennheiser, Audeze, Hifiman, Stax, Jecklin ...
 I am fan of headphones. This is important. If a company makes a good step, I'm a fan here. No matter what name.
 Mr. Jecklin has also an advantage. He is not a new to the scene, but for over 40 years standing. If such a man again takes a step, my ears are very long. And my big interest.
 
 That's the whole background. Nothing more.

Click to expand...

 
I really dont understand what if any point you are trying to make here, its comes across as totally incohertent
Perhaps English is not your first language?

Quote:

michaelxray said:

Frank,
 
[...]
 
Anyway, ... I have no problem with it.
 

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I really try to be some kind of objective, but all we "headphone-freaks" can achieve in the end, is to measure things and rate them in a "neutral-subjective" way, I think.
 
Quote:

complin said:

 
I really dont understand what if any point you are trying to make here, its comes across as totally incohertent
Perhaps English is not your first language?

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His first language is, like mine, German, I think.

Quote:

nordwestlicht said:

 

 
I really try to be some kind of objective, but all we "headphone-freaks"

can achieve in the end, is to measure things and rate them in a "neutral-subjective" way, I think.
 
 
His first language is, like mine, German, I think.

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I've already apologized for the translation. Unfortunately, it does not get better. Frank, You can measure a lot and know nothing. You can hear a lot and know nothing. It's all possible in humans. If they believe that measure alone is sufficient, this is not my belief. A pianist does not measure his piano. He sits down and plays it.
 
Both together is important.  Measurement and listening
 
Every thing properly and analyzed in the proper context, is the way. Sorry, my opinion.
If you measure only, will have no time to listen.
 
first language is German

Quote:

michaelxray said:

 
Both together is important.  Measurement and listening
 

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ON-TOPIC-OFF-TOPIC :
 
@michaelxray
 
Genau das meine ich ja und deshalb kann es ja auch niemals einen allgemein "besten" Kopfhörer geben, außer für einen ganz persönlich. Natürlich kann man auch das noch weiter differenzieren, die alten Aufnahmen von Django Reinhardt höre ich z.B. lieber mit dem Sennheiser HD600, als mit dem HD800, den ich aber bei "Großorchestern" und vor allem hervorragenden Aufnahmen deutlich bevorzuge. So haben sich im Laufe der Zeit bislang 43 Hörer bei mir angesammelt, wovon ich den HD800 am meisten schätze. Durch die Messungen weiß ich, dass mir insbesondere Kopfhörer gefallen, die bei 2kHz eine Senke im Frequenzgang haben. So lassen sich also subjektive Empfindungen mit objektiven Messungen kombinieren zu einer für mich sinnvollen Meinung. Ob andere das auch so sehen, das ist noch einmal eine ganz andere Geschichte, denn es gibt Kopfhörer von z.B. Audio-Technica, die ich überhaupt nicht ab kann und die andere absolut über den Klee loben. Darum muss man, wie ich finde auch etwas den Ball flach halten, wenn man behauptet, dass ein bestimmter Kopfhörer "der Beste" ist. Aber natürlich jedem seine Meinung! und es ist natürlich Dein gutes Recht zu behaupten, dass für Dich dieser oder jener Kopfhörer der Beste ist. Nur teilen muss man die Meinung eben nicht zwingend.
 
In diesem Sinne...

Quote:

nordwestlicht said:

 
ON-TOPIC-OFF-TOPIC

:
 
@michaelxray
 
Genau das meine ich ja und deshalb kann es ja auch niemals einen allgemein "besten" Kopfhörer geben, außer für einen ganz persönlich. Natürlich kann man auch das noch weiter differenzieren, die alten Aufnahmen von Django Reinhardt höre ich z.B. lieber mit dem Sennheiser HD600, als mit dem HD800, den ich aber bei "Großorchestern" und vor allem hervorragenden Aufnahmen deutlich bevorzuge. So haben sich im Laufe der Zeit bislang 43 Hörer bei mir angesammelt, wovon ich den HD800 am meisten schätze. Durch die Messungen weiß ich, dass mir insbesondere Kopfhörer gefallen, die bei 2kHz eine Senke im Frequenzgang haben. So lassen sich also subjektive Empfindungen mit objektiven Messungen kombinieren zu einer für mich sinnvollen Meinung. Ob andere das auch so sehen, das ist noch einmal eine ganz andere Geschichte, denn es gibt Kopfhörer von z.B. Audio-Technica, die ich überhaupt nicht ab kann und die andere absolut über den Klee loben. Darum muss man, wie ich finde auch etwas den Ball flach halten, wenn man behauptet, dass ein bestimmter Kopfhörer "der Beste" ist. Aber natürlich jedem seine Meinung! und es ist natürlich Dein gutes Recht zu behaupten, dass für Dich dieser oder jener Kopfhörer der Beste ist. Nur teilen muss man die Meinung eben nicht zwingend.
 
In diesem Sinne...

Click to expand...

 
Frank,
 
Das Beste leitet sich von ganz bestimmten Dingen ab. So wäre es doch merkwürdig, beispielsweise einem K1000 nicht den konstruktionsbedingten räumlichen Vorteil zu seiner Zeit gegenüber mitkonkurierenden Teilnehmern, allerdings mit normaler Ohrumschließung, zu attestieren. Ob das Ganze dann weitere 10 Personen je nach IKL für sich so empfinden oder nicht, ist halt schlecht vorhersehbar.
 
Du wirst nirgendwo lesen, dass ich einen Konflikt mit verschiedenen Wahrnehmungen bekomme. Vielleicht müßte man bei einer Beschreibung hinter jeden Satz, in dem man votet, ausdrücklich schreiben: Laut meiner Meinung oder meiner Auffassung nach oder meinem Geschmack nach. Ich find das halt kindisch, jedesmal gezielt darauf hinzuweisen. Gemeint kann bei einer Aussage mit einem Urteil nur das sein, nämlich gemäß persönlicher Einschätzung, ein persönliches Urteil. Ich dachte, das wäre klar, auch ohne permanent darauf hinzuweisen. Okay, kann ich aber nachholen.
 
ON Topic
 
An assessment is to be understood subjectively.
 
Sorry for the short conversation in German.

Quote:

nordwestlicht said:

 
ON-TOPIC-OFF-TOPIC

:
 
@michaelxray
 
Genau das meine ich ja und deshalb kann es ja auch niemals einen allgemein "besten" Kopfhörer geben, außer für einen ganz persönlich. Natürlich kann man auch das noch weiter differenzieren, die alten Aufnahmen von Django Reinhardt höre ich z.B. lieber mit dem Sennheiser HD600, als mit dem HD800, den ich aber bei "Großorchestern" und vor allem hervorragenden Aufnahmen deutlich bevorzuge. So haben sich im Laufe der Zeit bislang 43 Hörer bei mir angesammelt, wovon ich den HD800 am meisten schätze. Durch die Messungen weiß ich, dass mir insbesondere Kopfhörer gefallen, die bei 2kHz eine Senke im Frequenzgang haben. So lassen sich also subjektive Empfindungen mit objektiven Messungen kombinieren zu einer für mich sinnvollen Meinung. Ob andere das auch so sehen, das ist noch einmal eine ganz andere Geschichte, denn es gibt Kopfhörer von z.B. Audio-Technica, die ich überhaupt nicht ab kann und die andere absolut über den Klee loben. Darum muss man, wie ich finde auch etwas den Ball flach halten, wenn man behauptet, dass ein bestimmter Kopfhörer "der Beste" ist. Aber natürlich jedem seine Meinung! und es ist natürlich Dein gutes Recht zu behaupten, dass für Dich dieser oder jener Kopfhörer der Beste ist. Nur teilen muss man die Meinung eben nicht zwingend.
 
In diesem Sinne...

Click to expand...

 
As you say you prefer headphones with a dip around 2 khz.  If you look at Tyll's reviews (Inner Fidelity) and measurements there is a strong correlation between how a headphone measures and how its sounds.  Which should not come as a surprise really!  From this its possible the predict if you are likely to like the sound.  Its not foo, proof as there are other factors in play but a good indication,  

Quote:
 
Nothing makes me want to avoid this headphone more than your posts tbh.  If you are trying to support it, mission failed.  My free speech exercise for the day.

Quote:

anaxilus said:

 
Nothing makes me want to avoid this headphone more than your posts tbh.  If you are trying to support it, mission failed.  My free speech exercise for the day.

Click to expand...

 
 
 
 
It's not my job to convince them
 
You can decide at any time as a free man for themselves where their interests lie. If you are interested in the future Jecklin Qa, they will find a channel. If not, okay. The handling is her personal decision.
 
Let's wait a little off. Everything will straighten out. When that time comes, we'll talk again, here, at the same place.
 
Speculations mean nothing. I've already heard the Jecklin QA. Can they also say they have heard the Jecklin QA? If not, I do not understand their tendency to negative.
 
What they base their negative slope? Only because of my words?
 
Imagine: A person who said 20 years ago: A Stax has more quality than any dynamic headphones! What then? Hype? Not Hype? You know: You can do everything in a mill and grind and grind. And see all speculative, even before you've heard a pair of headphones.
 
Is it a problem to recognize that the QA Jecklin makes sounds clearer than any other headphones? (Exclusive Stax SR-009)
 If so, what they see this problem.
 I see no problem. If they all headphones that play a role, can put in a relationship, then they can also detect when the Jecklin QA makes more clear sound.
 Or is not it?
 Where is this big problem? And what does this have to do with personal taste?
 I did not say: You are the QA love more than any other headphones.
 I said, his tone has more quality than any other headphones.
 That's a difference.

michaelxray said:

It's not my job to convince them
....

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kinda seems it is though

michaelxray said:

Is it a problem to recognize that the QA Jecklin makes sounds clearer than any other headphones? (Exclusive Stax SR-009)
....

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Here's maybe one line too many, you haven't heard the 009 remember. Would love to hear these cans if they're indeed of that caliber!

The English language presentation is difficult to understand but perhaps "(Exclusive Stax SR-009)" means Excluding Stax SR-009. I too am interested in seeing independent and believable source reviews on the new Jecklin.