Now I suppose with 40+ years of audio experience I'm supposed to come off as experienced and all (or at least mostly) knowing. Not always true. When I designed the Mani, I did so, as always, in a vacuum. When I built my first phono stages back in the 1970's, there were two big problems, that no one else was paying strict attention to. One was stay tight on the RIAA equalization. Well all of my stuff has been within a tenth of a db either way – great! At the time, and still yet today, most everyone else is 10 to fifty times worse. Check the reviews. The next problem is noise (circuit noise, not external system noise). Again, back in the day, I kicked ass and made the quietest tube stuff at the time.  Also, the following imperative – no filters in the signal path – they sound like ass. So I built my early Theta phono preamps just like that.  So much for good news and proper design.
 
I then sold enough of them to get a pretty good sample size. I got a few calls for funny noise or hum in the background – sometimes loud. So I contacted my former engineering boss (while I was still employable) Ralph Morrison, who wrote a book on grounding and shielding techniques in instrumentation and redid my circuit boards for the Theta preamp – the result was that it sounded much better, but the same interference troubles persisted with the same user. At the time, I still hadn't considered in context the following:
 
1. Phono signals are 60-80db smaller than line level signals. That's a thousandth to a ten thousandth the size. That makes whatever external system noise is present 1000 to 10000 times bigger in comparison (huge!!!)
 
2. Phono cartridges are in tonearms, with clips and contacts of various metal platings, connected to more contacts on jacks and connectors of even more dissimilar metal combinations, eventually arriving at the Mani input. Dissimilar metals as they slowly oxidize form diode equivalents which are radio signal detectors. The phono cartridges all have different properties which may simulate (or not) radio antennae. You eliminate this by disconnecting/reconnecting the connectors periodically. (I remember with nostalgia when audio grifters used to sell chemicals to smear all over your mating audio contacts to improve the sound. They usually featured “proprietary ingredients” such as WD-40 or badger spooge to transform the listening experience.)
 
3. There are three major ways for external interference to enter a Mani (or any other phono preamp). Through the air (that's why Mani has a steel chassis- to keep it out); through the input (see number 2 above); and through the power supply. FCC tests require makers of devices which produce RF to print warnings about reorienting the equipment. etc.
 
Now, in the era of the Mani, there are several newer complicating factors:
 
1. Cell phones. The worst polluter in your environment. If you are so addicted to it, get it out of the room with your turntable. Better yet, drop it in a pail of water. I guarantee that it will then not interfere with your system. You can see who's dog farted or who's popped a zit today on Facebook with far less squinting from your regular laptop, which will undoubtedly be close. Actually talk to more people rather than texting or using social media. You will definitely require improved social skills to compensate for being a vinyl nerd. Get a landline – everyone will understand you better and there will be no annoying dropouts or missed calls when you turn your head 30 degrees.
 
2. WiFi routers. RF splat. Probably worth getting as far away as possible from anything audio. Move it closer to where the cable comes in, or move your system away from the router.
 
3. Corrupt FCC certs. It is common place in many overseas manufacturing environments to obtain your FCC credentials by buying them. Hence, a lot more radiation. This particularly affects routers.
 
4. Much of the phono equipment in use today was manufactured 30-50 years ago. It requires at a minimum maintenance.
 
So What????? Well, it seems that almost 40 years after Introducing the Theta preamp, I produce a Mani phono preamp, expecting different results.
 
And now we still have users with interference. To all of them, and ThurstonX in particular, all I can do is encourage experimentation. It may well be the Mani Wall Wart, the cartridge-arm wiring, or many other possibilities. We will bear no grudges for any returned Manis at Schiit.
 
My point is that Vinyl nerds are entering an area that requires experience, endurance, and mutual self-support. Neither blame nor falling on swords works here. This is not a plug and play universe – that is for people with throwaway ear-buds plugged straight into their laptops. There are a LOT of permutations and combinations. There are a lot of two steps forward, one back in this subset of our audio hobby. You will sell/return gear that you shouldn't have, and hang on to poorly performing crap for way too long. But it gets better. For me, 40 years later, it is starting to get really good. So why do it????
 
Because it is worth it!!

So is the Asgard or the Magni good for high impedance phones? Because I keep seeing things that the asgard is designed for low impedance phones that require high current...but I don't see anything about high impedance..

with all due respect to Mike, Schiit and plastic frisbee disc lovers everywhere-
I'd rather jump in a pile of dung than worry about ever hooking up a turntable again in my lifetime.
oh gosh my needle cartridge isn't sharp enough?  gasp, there is a nick on my favorite song 2 on side B?  pffft. 
kill. it. already.
 
 
 
wax cylinders, waxing nostalgic, and weeping about the glory days of vinyl is played.
this coming from a 45+ who grew up on LPs, tape decks and other bunk with scratches, ticks, hiss, dolby NR.
 
the media format was not the glory of those eras, it was the recording quality of the engineers.
if one is so attached to that one recording, of that one band, of that one LP.  feel free, torture yourself and do all the insanity of vinyl cleaning, dust removal, arm balancing and connectivity to put your ears in supposed audible bliss.
 
 
I'd rather listen to something new, with no clicks, cracks, pops and skips. lossless from a bandcamp purchase via a DAC and my Lyr 2 tubes before I'll go into my basement and pine "oh I wish I could play this old record by the Flaming Lips I bought in Milwaukee in 1987."
(long live Atomic.)
 
I'm all for different strokes for different folks, but this vinyl-can-still-be-the-be-all-and-end-all is not supported (or wanted) by this non-vinyl nerd.
music on.

Right on, Mike!  Cell phone part made me laugh.

Hey Thurston,
 
How are you grounding the Mani (apologies if you have already answered this)?

I feel where you are coming from jexby after buying the gungnir I was excited to hook up my CD player along side my computer to play music only to find the act of changing CDs the way I did for over 25 years a hassle I do not think I will ever go back to physical media again other than to rip a cd to my computer let alone worry about vinyl. The way I look at it is that I just want to hear good music with the least amount of hassle.

loki993 said:

So is the Asgard or the Magni good for high impedance phones? Because I keep seeing things that the asgard is designed for low impedance phones that require high current...but I don't see anything about high impedance..

Click to expand...

I have used my HD600 (300 Ohms) with my Magni, and that sounds "good", but my Valhalla definitely sounds "better".

Basically, it will work, but something with higher voltage output will likely sound better.

loki993 said:

So is the Asgard or the Magni good for high impedance phones? Because I keep seeing things that the asgard is designed for low impedance phones that require high current...but I don't see anything about high impedance..

Click to expand...

Asgard is good for both.

thurstonx said:

It definitely takes a lot of experimenting.  FWIW, I moved the Mani about as far from that PC as I could (~7 feet), and used a different outlet via power strip.  Still got the static, but didn't try the disable/enable WiFi adapter test.  Static at that location was enough.  I still think it's the wall wart; that or the Mani itself.  If the PSU is that bad, why haven't I heard it before?  I've got loads of audio gear in that room.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

ThurstonX, I experienced similar problems to you and nearly went mad trying to figure out the cause. I experimented endlessly to no avail. My problems were solved using the hum-x device purchased on eBay for about $50. It is grounded as well, so I had no qualms connecting my computer to it before plugging it into the wall. All the best.

So lets throw this in the the mix now.if somewhere were to offer me a good deal on the original Asgard would that be a good option over the Magni? At that point I'm not so sure since the Asgard2 has been upgraded so much....but it should still have to power output though on paper at least the Mgani looks nearly as powerful...but I'm sure that not actually the case. 

Thanks Mike for the insight on phono preamps and your Mani. I also didn't know badger spooge was a thing at one point lol. We've come so far.
 
To jexby, please don't become one of those evil villians whose sole drive is to exterminate all vinyl. I don't want it to die. Plus think about it this way, if civilization survives after a nuclear holocaust, the only music that will still be available (provided it doesn't melt in the initial blasts) is vinyl records and compact discs. Which format will be easier to play then?

loki993 said:

  So lets throw this in the the mix now.if somewhere were to offer me a good deal on the original Asgard would that be a good option over the Magni? At that point I'm not so sure since the Asgard2 has been upgraded so much....but it should still have to power output though on paper at least the Mgani looks nearly as powerful...but I'm sure that not actually the case. 

Click to expand...

 
I'd go for Asgard 2.

ninjahamster said:

  Hey Thurston,
 
How are you grounding the Mani (apologies if you have already answered this)?

Click to expand...

 
Didn't, since the turntable had no ground wire, though the manual for one permutation of that model shows a ground coming out with the RCAs.  I returned the Mani, as the 15-day period was nearing its end, and I've got other stuff to do.  I will try again with something, as I do agree with Mike.  If the Mani had a 30-day return policy, I'd be experimenting like a mad scientist.  I did what I could in the time I had, but couldn't make the problem go away, and couldn't live with it.
 
Regarding cellphones and routers, my cell never comes close to that room, and is often turned off, as it rarely gets used.  It's my insurance policy for the car breaking down, not my means of communication.  The funny thing with the WiFi router is that the Mani worked best in the room where the router sits about seven feet away (see earlier write-up re: said testing).  The room where the TT lives is a little box one story up with lots of schiit in it.  While I have no idea if it was a valid test, I took the Mani out of the chain and plugged the TT directly into the Lyr.  Obviously audio was barely audible, but I also did not hear the problem.  I know that's not an ideal test, and wonder if it truly eliminated the TT as the problem.
 
I wish I could have tested grounding the TT to the Mani, but doesn't that mean the Mani acts as the ground?  Excuse my ignorance.  I'm happy to learn.  While the TT's plug is composed of two straight blades, I've never experienced any ground loop hum with it.

baldr said:

 

Spoiler: Mike's Wisdom

Now I suppose with 40+ years of audio experience I'm supposed to come off as experienced and all (or at least mostly) knowing. Not always true. When I designed the Mani, I did so, as always, in a vacuum. When I built my first phono stages back in the 1970's, there were two big problems, that no one else was paying strict attention to. One was stay tight on the RIAA equalization. Well all of my stuff has been within a tenth of a db either way – great! At the time, and still yet today, most everyone else is 10 to fifty times worse. Check the reviews. The next problem is noise (circuit noise, not external system noise). Again, back in the day, I kicked ass and made the quietest tube stuff at the time.  Also, the following imperative – no filters in the signal path – they sound like ass. So I built my early Theta phono preamps just like that.  So much for good news and proper design.
 
I then sold enough of them to get a pretty good sample size. I got a few calls for funny noise or hum in the background – sometimes loud. So I contacted my former engineering boss (while I was still employable) Ralph Morrison, who wrote a book on grounding and shielding techniques in instrumentation and redid my circuit boards for the Theta preamp – the result was that it sounded much better, but the same interference troubles persisted with the same user. At the time, I still hadn't considered in context the following:
 
1. Phono signals are 60-80db smaller than line level signals. That's a thousandth to a ten thousandth the size. That makes whatever external system noise is present 1000 to 10000 times bigger in comparison (huge!!!)
 
2. Phono cartridges are in tonearms, with clips and contacts of various metal platings, connected to more contacts on jacks and connectors of even more dissimilar metal combinations, eventually arriving at the Mani input. Dissimilar metals as they slowly oxidize form diode equivalents which are radio signal detectors. The phono cartridges all have different properties which may simulate (or not) radio antennae. You eliminate this by disconnecting/reconnecting the connectors periodically. (I remember with nostalgia when audio grifters used to sell chemicals to smear all over your mating audio contacts to improve the sound. They usually featured “proprietary ingredients” such as WD-40 or badger spooge to transform the listening experience.)
 
3. There are three major ways for external interference to enter a Mani (or any other phono preamp). Through the air (that's why Mani has a steel chassis- to keep it out); through the input (see number 2 above); and through the power supply. FCC tests require makers of devices which produce RF to print warnings about reorienting the equipment. etc.
 
Now, in the era of the Mani, there are several newer complicating factors:
 
1. Cell phones. The worst polluter in your environment. If you are so addicted to it, get it out of the room with your turntable. Better yet, drop it in a pail of water. I guarantee that it will then not interfere with your system. You can see who's dog farted or who's popped a zit today on Facebook with far less squinting from your regular laptop, which will undoubtedly be close. Actually talk to more people rather than texting or using social media. You will definitely require improved social skills to compensate for being a vinyl nerd. Get a landline – everyone will understand you better and there will be no annoying dropouts or missed calls when you turn your head 30 degrees.
 
2. WiFi routers. RF splat. Probably worth getting as far away as possible from anything audio. Move it closer to where the cable comes in, or move your system away from the router.
 
3. Corrupt FCC certs. It is common place in many overseas manufacturing environments to obtain your FCC credentials by buying them. Hence, a lot more radiation. This particularly affects routers.
 
4. Much of the phono equipment in use today was manufactured 30-50 years ago. It requires at a minimum maintenance.

 
So What????? Well, it seems that almost 40 years after Introducing the Theta preamp, I produce a Mani phono preamp, expecting different results.
 
And now we still have users with interference. To all of them, and ThurstonX in particular, all I can do is encourage experimentation. It may well be the Mani Wall Wart, the cartridge-arm wiring, or many other possibilities. We will bear no grudges for any returned Manis at Schiit.
 
My point is that Vinyl nerds are entering an area that requires experience, endurance, and mutual self-support. Neither blame nor falling on swords works here. This is not a plug and play universe – that is for people with throwaway ear-buds plugged straight into their laptops. There are a LOT of permutations and combinations. There are a lot of two steps forward, one back in this subset of our audio hobby. You will sell/return gear that you shouldn't have, and hang on to poorly performing crap for way too long. But it gets better. For me, 40 years later, it is starting to get really good. So why do it????
 
Because it is worth it!!

Click to expand...

 
Thanks for taking the time to educate this ignorant vinyl lover (sorry, jexby, but I've got too much on-vinyl-only tuneage to give it up), and to encourage continued experimentation.  I do wish the Mani had worked out for a few reasons.  When it did work in a temp location (coexisting happily with a WiFi router seven feet away) it was great.
 

adamaley said:

ThurstonX, I experienced similar problems to you and nearly went mad trying to figure out the cause. I experimented endlessly to no avail. My problems were solved using the hum-x device purchased on eBay for about $50. It is grounded as well, so I had no qualms connecting my computer to it before plugging it into the wall. All the best.

Click to expand...

 
Were you experiencing hum problems, or intermittent static-y noise, and which on what devices?  This is the only problem I've got with any of my gear.  No hums (except one wonky tube in a pair).  I don't want to invest a lot in things I don't really need.  I'm reading about Stillpoint ERS tape and cloth, but not sure yet if those are worth the cost, much less where and how to apply them.