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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 343

post #5131 of 8660
Originally Posted by floeezy View Post

Hey Casper.

How does the S5 + E18 combo sound compared to the AK100 II? I'm thinking of getting an E18 for my S5, coincidentally, and would like to know how the DAC and amp of the E18 compares to those of a dedicated DAP like the AK100 II.



Well ... I use my players on the go, so ambient noise reduced "the listening" experience.   ... important if you use on the go.


I think the Quality delivered by the Galaxy S5 (or any good Phone) with the E18 is great.

Wonderful, clear, great definition.


The AK100 II also delivers a great, great sound. Very open, great detail, great spacious sound.


That said, my goal was to split the functionality and have 2 compact dedicated devices.

I found that at work and on-the-go the (phone based) stack, however good or great any phone-based stack might be is not handy for me. So for me it was more about user friendliness and portability.


Getting to what device to use, the AK100 II is great but also expensive.

For most users I would recommend a good quality stand-alone player (be it an X3, X5 or others).


I chose the AK100 II because (in no particular order);

     1. Here in Belgium NO devices are on stock to test, so you purchase blind

     2. The AK100 II looks freaking awesome, and the finish is like a great Swiss watch

     3. I saw then AK100 II was new and used the same basic components as the AK240

     4. User interface is great, easy to use (custom android OS; NO Google Store or other apps possible!!)

     5. I had the budget


For somebody with a reasonable high budget I think I would recommend something like the X5 with its dual Micro-SD capacity and good quality.



To close ... I'm still over the moon on the E18 and it's fantastic sound quality, be it with the S5, iPOD (as AMP), iPad (DAC + AMP with camera connect kit) or on my PC's (as DAC + Headphone AMP).

The E18 delivers very good and even pushes my BeyerDynamic DT880 250 Ohm to high volume (and great sound).



I hope this can help,

Kind regards,



Edited by CasperBxl - 7/23/14 at 10:02am
post #5132 of 8660

Thank you Casper. That helps a lot. I think the E18 is exactly what I am looking for.


I was thinking of getting a standalone DAP, but I believe the user interface, battery life, and the "all-in-one" capability of a phone coupled with a DAC is very enticing.

post #5133 of 8660

I found out Android L can only be tested as an emulator, not as a beta OS.  I'll have to wait for Ibasso to get MSFT driver certification for the DX50 (or Android L to be released) to finally test out the DAC function of my DX50/Nexus 7 combo.

post #5134 of 8660
Android L is supposed to support usb audio generally? I mean not only specific apps like UsbAudioPlayer?
Tha is great news...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
post #5135 of 8660

On Android L-powered devices (i.e. on native USB audio-enabled Android devices), generic music players like Neutron, Poweramp or Spotify use the audio-specific Android interface (i.e. audio-specific framework APIs in "android.media": "MediaPlayer" class) to control playback of audio files and streams using internal DAC or external USB DAC.



On USB host-enabled Android devices (note: every USB audio-enabled Android device has a functional USB host feature), USB Audio Player PRO (UAPP) includes a music player and a USB audio soft driver.

The music player part of UAPP doesn't use the audio-specific Android interface.





post #5136 of 8660
Originally Posted by zzvelik View Post

I found out Android L can only be tested as an emulator, not as a beta OS.  I'll have to wait for Ibasso to get MSFT driver certification for the DX50 (or Android L to be released) to finally test out the DAC function of my DX50/Nexus 7 combo.


How to install Android L on Nexus 7:





"Install the L Preview System Image

1. Download and uncompress the Android Developer Preview package

2. Follow the instructions at developers.google.com/android to flash the image onto your device.



Revert a Device to Factory Specifications

If you want to uninstall the L Preview and revert the device to factory specifications, go to developers.google.com/android and download the image you want to flash to for your device. Follow the instructions on that page to flash the image to your device."



A list of standard USB DAC reportedly interworking with the native USB audio of Android L:


Google Nexus 5 running on Android L > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable (ID pin grounded) >> standard USB DAC >> amp >> headphones


. AudioQuest DragonFly (USB DAC/amp):




. FiiO E07K (USB DAC/amp): "it worked perfectly!"




. FiiO E17 (USB DAC/amp):




. FiiO E18 (USB DAC/amp):




Reportedly non-compatible USB DAC:

. Aune T1 (USB DAC/amp):




Abnormal behavior:

. FiiO E07K: 44.1kHz-to-32kHz downsampling => not the same version of FiiO E07K or Android L as above ???



. FiiO E17: 44.1kHz-to-32kHz downsampling





Google Nexus 7 2013 running on Android L > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable (ID pin grounded) >> standard USB DAC >> amp >> headphones


. FiiO E07K (USB DAC/amp): "it worked flawlessly"




. FiiO E17 (USB DAC/amp):




Reportedly non-compatible USB DAC:

. Behringer UCA222:



. HiFimeDIY Sabre USB DAC ES9023 96KHZ/24BIT:



. iFi nano iDSD:



. Schitt Modi:



Edited by DanBa - 7/24/14 at 5:15pm
post #5137 of 8660
My 2013 Nexus 7 and I are gonna hold off on Android L until the USB DAC compatibility situation has worked itself out wink.gif
post #5138 of 8660

The native USB Audio of Android L Developer Preview is in the first step of development.

The FiiO E17 USB DAC/amp for example was not compatible with the first version of USB audio of the Samsung Galaxy S3. The E17 can now work with the S3.


It is not easy for the latest entrants (Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG, ..., and now Google) in the existing USB DAC jungle because the USB specification allows some variability.



The latest entrants have to adapt their USB audio implementation to (most) existing USB DACs.

They have to be compatible with different interpretations of the USB specification.


Once the native Google USB audio becomes mature, it will very likely become a reference USB audio implementation in the USB DAC industry used  for testing by the developers of new USB DACs, i.e. these USB DAC developers will have to adopt the Google interpretation of the USB specification.


Today, the XMOS Multi-Function Audio Design Reference is used by many USB DAC makers to speed up the development of their USB DAC compatible with PC, Mac and Android; and the XMOS developers test it against PC, Mac and some Android devices.




Edited by DanBa - 7/27/14 at 9:30am
post #5139 of 8660
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post



Reportedly non-compatible USB DAC:


. iFi nano iDSD:


http://ifi-audio.com/sales/#usa (link is wrong) = ifi-audio.com


I wouldn't say Android L is non-compatible with the ifi iDSD; it just adds a new dimension to your listening experience; " Now with 5.0 / Android L - the playback works natively out of all apps (awesome) but the playback rate/speed is super fast.  Everything sounds like alvin and the chipmunks." ;)


Would by nice if UAPP, or even better native USB audio support, being available for the Blackberry Z10.

post #5140 of 8660

It's a point of view.


Anyhow, as the Google Android Audio team is aware of the existence of the list of USB DAC reportedly interworking or not interworking with the Nexus 5 / 7 running on Android L, they could read and evaluate themselves the reporting information.

post #5141 of 8660

Sony Xperia Z2, Samsung Galaxy S5 & Dëff DDA-A20RC USB DAC/amp (with clip):






post #5142 of 8660

Sony Xperia ZL2 & native high resolution USB audio:




Xperia ZL2 >> USB OTG adapter cable + regular USB cable >> Sony PHA-2 USB DAC/amp >> Sony MDR-1R headphones




post #5143 of 8660
Thread Starter 
Should have an Nvidia Shield Tablet to report on next week.
post #5144 of 8660
Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post

Should have an Nvidia Shield Tablet to report on next week.


Neat, looking forward to hearing how it does! :)

post #5145 of 8660

Teac HA-P50 USB DAC/amp: a standard USB DAC and an Android-specific USB DAC!







Standard USB DAC & Android-specific USB DAC:




A standard USB DAC acts as a USB Device.

A standard USB DAC can work with a PC, a Mac or an Android-powered device acting as a USB Host.




An Android-specific USB DAC acts as a USB Host.

An Android-specific USB DAC can work with an Android-powered device acting as a USB Device.

An Android-specific USB DAC can't work with a PC or a Mac, because a USB Host can't work with another USB Host: USB is a master-slave communication bus, USB communication can only take place between a master device (i.e. USB Host) and a slave device (i.e. USB Device).







Teac HA-P50 as an Android-specific USB DAC: "A", iPod/iPhone/iPad/android connection port

"Playback at CD quality (44.1kHz/16-bit) is supported for devices running Android 4.1 or later (this does not guarantee operation for all Android devices)."



Docomo Sony Xperia >> regular USB cable >> "A" > Teac HA-P50 >> headphones





Teac HA-P50 as a standard USB DAC: "B", computer connection port

High resolution audio playback can be supported using USB Audio Player PRO or USB Audio Recorder PRO.



Android device >> USB OTG cable >> "B" > Teac HA-P50 >> headphones





USB powering:

The Teac HA-P50, acting as a USB Host or an Android-specific USB DAC, powers the connected Android device.




A self-powered standard USB DAC (i.e. charging USB DAC), acting as a USB Device, can also power some USB OTG-capable Android device using standard USB ACA (Accessory Charger Adapter) mechanism.


A USB OTG device is configured to USB Host mode supplying or drawing power, or USB Device mode by ACA/OTG software/hardware measuring the value of the ID resistor of the USB interface.


According to the value of the ID resistor "R"

. the Android device should act as a USB Host, interwork with the USB DAC acting as a USB Device, and supply power to the bus-powered USB DAC

. the Android device should act as a USB Host, interwork with the USB DAC acting as a USB Device, and draw power from an external battery

. the Android device should act as a standalone USB Device, and draw power from an external battery

. the Android device should act as a USB Device, interwork with a USB Host, and draw power from an external power source.


Currently, Samsung uses different value of the ID resistor than what is specified in the USB ACA specification (i.e. USB Battery Charging 1.2 specification).




Google and Android device makers should support USB ACA (with standard ID resistor values), only one small step further from USB OTG.

Edited by DanBa - 8/2/14 at 5:04am
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