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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 180

post #2686 of 5908

Dear DanBa,

 

First of all, thank you very much for carefully maintaining this very valuable thread! 

 

Second, I'd like to share some of my thoughts, partly inspired by this thread.

 

Indeed, the availability of USB digital audio output from android phones has IMO revolutionized the entire approach to portable hi-fi.  In fact, I personally tend to see less and less value in expensive portable DAPs (Astrell&Kern, Colorfly and the rest of the pack), since you can instead invest into a higher-class portable USB DAC/AMP, which on average give you a lot more bang for the buck in terms of audio reproduction quality compared to a higher-end DAP. And it allows for a much greater flexibility.

 

I am a happy owner of a (more or less) typical portable rig: SIII -> USB OTG -> RSA Predator -> Audiotechnica ATH-ES10. And I would have been more than happy with this set up, if not for one terrible annoyance that drives me absolutely mad: this SIII is not a dedicated digital audio transport, but my primary communication device, so I have to take and make phone calls from time to time, and stay connected to the cellular network for that matter, which unfortunately induces terrible hum, beeping sounds and clicks resulting from the device's cellular (mainly) and/or other wireless activity.

 

The result is a spoiled listening experience, with the only way to stop it (or is it? I didn't found any better way...) is to switch the device to Airplaine mode. This brings in the audiophile nirvana of uninterrupted and unaffected listening, but... undermines my connectivity, which is a critical component of nowadays' on-the-go life.

 

Heck!!! What to do???

 

I spent weeks thinking about it, googling all over the place in search for a solution...

 

I considered dedicated DAPs, and rejected them for two reasons: one, because this would have completely ruin the value of my investment into RSA Predator, the sound signature of which paired to my ES10 I tend to like a lot. But I'd have to either abandon it, or use it as an amp-only, because none of higher-end dedicated DAPs I considered offered usb audio out, and a few had line out bypassing their. Second, I would overpay for the player part of the DAP (storage, processing power, interface, controls, screen) and lose any flexibility of Android in terms of choice of player software/album management etc. 

 

I considered getting a second smartphone with known USB audio out support out-of-the-box to run it as a DAP in Airplane Mode, but my search revealed that I am somewhat limited to higher-end Samsung and HTC models, with bigger and better screens, high processing power etc, which, again, I did not need. The smallest and cheapest I found was Galaxy SIII mini, which still is a 300$ investment in my village.

 

And then I finally bumped into this thread, and it stroke me: what if I get any cheapest android phone running 4.0 or higher and supporting USB OTG, and USB audio recorder pro will do the rest??? 

 

I am sorry for being so long-winded, but do I get it right that in fact ANY android 4.0 or lated devices with USB OTG functionnality will be able to output USB digital audio with the help of USB audio recorder pro??

 

Your help and advice are highly appreciated! 

post #2687 of 5908

@SV_Hummer: the only potential issue I see in your thought process is that at the moment, USB Audio Recorder Pro is a player itself, not a service, so you would not have the ability to use another player on your Android device (or a streaming service like MOG, Rhapsody, Spotify, etc). If you look for posts by a member here named eXtream, you can find more info about the progress towards a USB audio service that would allow you to use other applications (as he is the developer of the application). Hope this makes sense!

 

@eXtream: every step you get us closer to a USB audio service that's usable on a wide variety of devices, the more I heart you. In a totally good, non-creepy way, I promise! :D 

post #2688 of 5908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theogenes View Post

@SV_Hummer: the only potential issue I see in your thought process is that at the moment, USB Audio Recorder Pro is a player itself, not a service, so you would not have the ability to use another player on your Android device (or a streaming service like MOG, Rhapsody, Spotify, etc). 

 

Theogenes, thank you, what you said makes perfect sense - I realize that with the current implementation I will have to use UARP application, which is fine for the time being (cherishing the hopes that ExtreamSD would continue their excellent work on helping us getting the best out of our android devices).

 

What I was trying to clarify was whether UARP application needs nothing more than an Android 4.* devices with USB OTG functionnality to rock :-)

post #2689 of 5908

@SV_Hummer: this could be the solution for you.

 

MK808B

post #2690 of 5908
With no screen or other controls this becomes a challenging piece to use on the go smily_headphones1.gif)
post #2691 of 5908

True, I was thinking in something for use at home. 

Anyway, you don't need a screen since it can be controlled from a phone.

 

Anybody knows something about USB Audio on Android 4.3?

post #2692 of 5908
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramilacaponi View Post

Anyway, you don't need a screen since it can be controlled from a phone.

 

How could you control it from a phone? Some special app? 

post #2693 of 5908

If you use XBMC or aMPD both have apps for controlling it from another android device

post #2694 of 5908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

I am a happy owner of a (more or less) typical portable rig: SIII -> USB OTG -> RSA Predator -> Audiotechnica ATH-ES10. And I would have been more than happy with this set up, if not for one terrible annoyance that drives me absolutely mad: this SIII is not a dedicated digital audio transport, but my primary communication device, so I have to take and make phone calls from time to time, and stay connected to the cellular network for that matter, which unfortunately induces terrible hum, beeping sounds and clicks resulting from the device's cellular (mainly) and/or other wireless activity.

 

The result is a spoiled listening experience, with the only way to stop it (or is it? I didn't found any better way...) is to switch the device to Airplaine mode. This brings in the audiophile nirvana of uninterrupted and unaffected listening, but... undermines my connectivity, which is a critical component of nowadays' on-the-go life.

 

Heck!!! What to do???

 

 

In this usage context, I’m used to put my Galaxy S3 away from my ODAC + Neco Soundlab V3 portable amp by not using short USB OTG cable: no more radiated EMI (ElectroMagnetic Interference).
 
Some USB DAC/amp makers, like CEntrance, take a lot of care of EMC (ElectroMagnetic Compatibility):
"Meantime, we are working out the EMC issues.
We need to make sure our boards are making adequate contact with the chassis metal to make sure that external radio frequency interference doesn’t affect the performance of our unit. Radio frequencies should be going straight to the metal of the chassis, not to the circuit. Protection is especially important, since there will be a cell phone sitting right on top of the HiFi-M8.
We are doing very well already with EMC stuff, but are considering an extra step. For that, we are using a little toothy clip. "
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

I considered getting a second smartphone with known USB audio out support out-of-the-box to run it as a DAP in Airplane Mode, but my search revealed that I am somewhat limited to higher-end Samsung and HTC models, with bigger and better screens, high processing power etc, which, again, I did not need. The smallest and cheapest I found was Galaxy SIII mini, which still is a 300$ investment in my village.

 

And then I finally bumped into this thread, and it stroke me: what if I get any cheapest android phone running 4.0 or higher and supporting USB OTG, and USB audio recorder pro will do the rest??? 

 

I am sorry for being so long-winded, but do I get it right that in fact ANY android 4.0 or lated devices with USB OTG functionnality will be able to output USB digital audio with the help of USB audio recorder pro??

 

 

As far as I understand, USB Audio Recorder PRO requires a USB Host driver able to transmit isochronous packets to USB DAC.
 
The Galaxy S2 acting as USB Host can interwork with USB Peripheral like USB mouse, USB keyboard or USB drive. 
But it can’t work with USB DAC, because its USB Host driver isn’t able to transmit isochronous packets to USB DAC.
post #2695 of 5908

My E17 picks up a very tiny amount of EMI when Wifi is on, and is 100% completely dead silent when connected to 3G or 4G. It is completely usable on 3G and 4G and is still tolerable even on wifi because it's just barely noticeable with nothing playing. This is with a Verizon Galaxy S4. 

post #2696 of 5908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post
... The smallest and cheapest I found was Galaxy SIII mini, ...

The Samsung Galaxy SIII mini does not support USB OTG!

post #2697 of 5908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

Theogenes, thank you, what you said makes perfect sense - I realize that with the current implementation I will have to use UARP application, which is fine for the time being (cherishing the hopes that ExtreamSD would continue their excellent work on helping us getting the best out of our android devices).

 

What I was trying to clarify was whether UARP application needs nothing more than an Android 4.* devices with USB OTG functionnality to rock :-)

 

I misunderstood you, my apologies. It sounds like you are correct about 4.x devices being able to utilize UARP, but I'll leave the definitive answers to those with the knowledge to give 'em. ;)

post #2698 of 5908
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramilacaponi View Post

True, I was thinking in something for use at home. 

Anyway, you don't need a screen since it can be controlled from a phone.

 

Anybody knows something about USB Audio on Android 4.3?

 

I know that I upgraded my Nexus 10 tablet to Android 4.3 and still can't get USB Audio to work properly (not counting USB Audio Recorder PRO, since to me, that doesn't count.  I want full USB Audio support, and like most here, I don't think that is unreasonable).  My USB DACs are Hifimediy Sabre and Fiio E07k.

 

Maybe everything will work properly with Android 5.0 (we can hope)...

post #2699 of 5908

Thanks everyone for your valuable suggestions and recommendations. I must admit the whole thing is not as easy, as I initially thought. I was wrong thinking that Galaxy S3 Mini does support USB OTG - looks like it does not... It is so tepmting to think that a Mini is just a scaled-down version of S3, but the bitter reality is different.

 

Maybe some cheaper Xperia models will do the trick for me - will try the Sola. Unfortunately it does not have native USB Audio support, as the higher-end Z-series models, but with USB Audio Recorder Pro this is of a lesser importance.

 

One thing about the Sola bothers me: according to this post by Sony tech support: http://talk.sonymobile.com/thread/140910, none of the xperias have USB OTG support per se. Maybe this is just the question of technical terminology, and means nothing in real life, but I would like to confirm with someone who actually has experience with any XPeria models: can I use the standard USB OTG cable (pins 4&5 shortened at the Micro connector) to get the USB DAC connected?

 

UPDATE: The Sola has non-removable battery according to some reviews, is this true, and if so - how big of an issue it is in your view?


Edited by SV_huMMer - 7/24/13 at 11:53pm
post #2700 of 5908

To work with a USB peripheral like USB DAC, a device doesn’t need to support USB OTG: a PC doesn’t support USB OTG, it supports USB host, so it can work with USB DAC.

 

 

USB OTG allows a legacy peripheral like an Android device to be a dual-role USB device, sometimes a USB host, sometimes a USB peripheral:

. an Android device operating as a USB peripheral can interwork with a PC operating as a USB host

. an Android device operating as a USB host can interwork with a USB DAC always operating as a USB peripheral.

 

A USB OTG software program and USB OTG hardware components are added at the USB level.

A USB OTG device is configured to USB host mode or USB peripheral mode by USB OTG software/hardware measuring the value of the ID resistance of the USB interface.

 

When the Micro-B plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is greater than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB peripheral mode.

 

 

 

 

When the Micro-B plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is greater than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB peripheral mode.

 

 

 

When the (functional) Micro-A plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is less than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB host mode.

 

 

1000

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

One thing about the Sola bothers me: according to this post by Sony tech support: http://talk.sonymobile.com/thread/140910, none of the xperias have USB OTG support per se. Maybe this is just the question of technical terminology, and means nothing in real life, but I would like to confirm with someone who actually has experience with any XPeria models: can I use the standard USB OTG cable (pins 4&5 shortened at the Micro connector) to get the USB DAC connected?

 

 

 

 

Xperia Z > USB audio out >> USB OTG adapter cable + USB cable >> Sony PHA-1 USB DAC/amp >> headphones

 

http://call-t.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2013-02-14

Google translation:

"★ little erudition,,, What is the USB host? 

The USB device, there are a host, are two types of device. 
Typically, PC is the host, and mouse, keyboard, printer and smartphone devices. The host + device, USB connection is established. 
This time, PHA-1 in the device of course,,, smartphone and device. It does not hold as a USB connection in this. So, There is no sound. 
Then, turn on the host cable. 
By inserting this, not command "O~i, Xperia Z-kun. Now, are you!'re Going to host" to the smartphone. 
In fact, by difference is 4 pin USB normal, if there 5-pin,,, to short the pin 5 and pin 4, and that becomes the host cable, micro USB (Mini USB, a simple mechanism unexpectedly ) If you explain one also, in,,, driver to control the device and,,,'m possible by the Android version of the traditional, such USB audio driver = PHA-1 like is not on, it's free to host, sound not come out. It is, I was loaded from OS4.1! It willl."
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