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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 140

post #2086 of 5935
Thanks for all the hard work. Any progress on outputting to another music player?
post #2087 of 5935

No, sorry. I need to focus with the limited time I have. Will come, but not now.

post #2088 of 5935

Thanks for all your hard work!

post #2089 of 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

 

How about using a slim USB battery connected to the S3 thru a Y-cable or a small powered USB hub?

 

Like you and Coop I thought that the issue might be related to power.  I asked Kevin Halverson at HRT whether he thought power was the issue.  

 

Here was his response:

 

 

 

Quote:
The Galaxy is a fully compliaint USB host and can supply 500 mA (though not for long).  It isn't the power that makes me suggest trying the hub though a self powered USB hub would be a better choice.  A "Y-connector" is unlikely to be of any value.
 
Kevin Halverson
CTO
High Resolution Technologies, LLC

 

So what would the reason be?  Will the hub take non-compliant data and somehow make it "more compliant"?  Sounds like voodoo to me but perhaps someone here has a better sense of how this might work.

 

Thanks,

 

- B

post #2090 of 5935

Im pretty sure, according to one of the usb enumeration document posted on this thread, because the s3 doesn't have a fully compliant powered usb port then anything that draws over 100ma will not enumerate or be recognised. edit link

 

http://www.lvr.com/usbcenum.htm


Edited by fuzzy1969 - 4/8/13 at 11:17am
post #2091 of 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

Im pretty sure, according to one of the usb enumeration document posted on this thread, because the s3 doesn't have a fully compliant powered usb port then anything that draws over 100ma will not enumerate or be recognised. edit link

 

http://www.lvr.com/usbcenum.htm

This is why I asked HRT in the first place.  The S3 outputs a max power of 96ma/interface so it shouldn't really work at all (right?).  But, the S3 does allow the MicroStreamer to render 16/44.1 files over USB (played from Neutron) but does not permit 24/96 from USB AR-PRO.  I can't pretend to have the faintest grasp of this material so what am I missing here?


Edited by BriX - 4/8/13 at 12:19pm
post #2092 of 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriX View Post

 

Like you and Coop I thought that the issue might be related to power. 

 

 

 

I’ve just suggested the solutions "slim battery + Y-cable " or "slim battery + small USB hub" to address your challenge in powering your portable rig without a wall-wart.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriX View Post

So what would the reason be?  Will the hub take non-compliant data and somehow make it "more compliant"?  Sounds like voodoo to me but perhaps someone here has a better sense of how this might work.

 

 

 

On a same Galaxy S3 and using the same USB driver, the native S3 USB audio software can drive the HRT microStreamer, and the USB audio software of USB Audio Recorder PRO can’t.
 
Apparently HRT engineers and USB Audio Recorder PRO developers don’t have the same interpretation of some USB specification part.
Put in other words, the implementation of USB audio by USB Audio Recorder PRO developers is not enough tolerant to the HRT implementation of the USB specification than the one by Samsung developers (it’s the only case as far as I know; usually USB Audio Recorder PRO is more tolerant).
 
A fix of the USB Audio Recorder PRO could be done using two USB traces provided by HRT (which should have some USB analyzer):
. 1st USB trace capturing USB packets exchanging between a Galaxy S3 using USB Audio Recorder PRO and a HRT microStreamer
. 2nd USB trace capturing USB packets exchanging between a Galaxy S3 using native USB audio and a HRT microStreamer
 
It should be ideal if HRT and you forward to the USB Audio Recorder PRO development team the two mentioned USB traces as well as the USB descriptors of the HRT microStreamer and the USB Audio Recorder PRO log trace.
post #2093 of 5935

The native USB audio of the Samsung Galaxy S3 can’t drive the FiiO E17, the USB audio Recorder PRO running on the Galaxy S3 can, the native USB audio of the HTC One can:

http://gavinsgadgets.wordpress.com/tag/gavins-gadgets/

 

stock HTC One > USB out >> FiiO E17 USB DAC >> FiiO E12 amp

 

"I also tried connected a Fiio E17 headphone/dac via USB. This worked really well, and I am pleased that the HTC One has USB audio out as a standard feature. As a comparison you can get USB audio out from the iPad Mini, iPhone 5 and older Apple devices, but as Apple control the authentication aspect, any USB DAC subsequently costs a premium due to the royalties Apple charges and their bespoke connectors. At least with the HTC One it is using a worldwide standard micro USB connection.

 

Connecting the Fiio E17 via USB to the HTC One, and using the DAC on the Fiio you begin to realise just how capable the One is in the audio department. Truly astonishing. And for the full affect you can use the Fiio E17 as a USB DAC only and feed the signal to the Fiio E12 Mont Blanc Portable Headphone amplifier, as shown below."

 

 

 

post #2094 of 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriX View Post

This is why I asked HRT in the first place.  The S3 outputs a max power of 96ma/interface so it shouldn't really work at all (right?).  But, the S3 does allow the MicroStreamer to render 16/44.1 files over USB (played from Neutron) but does not permit 24/96 from USB AR-PRO.  I can't pretend to have the faintest grasp of this material so what am I missing here?

Im only going by memory and I think s3 android can only output 16/44.1, what neutron does is downsamples the output from 24bit to 16bit, USB AR-PRO should be able to play 24bit though.

post #2095 of 5935
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

The native USB audio of the Samsung Galaxy S3 can’t drive the FiiO E17, the USB audio Recorder PRO running on the Galaxy S3 can, the native USB audio of the HTC One can:

http://gavinsgadgets.wordpress.com/tag/gavins-gadgets/

 

stock HTC One > USB out >> FiiO E17 USB DAC >> FiiO E12 amp

 

Great news!  Those lucky people can have the best screen in the business along with stellar sound.

 

Also, and largely unrelated: I tried connecting my DAC to my wife's Nexus 10 with Paranoid 3.15.  It didn't work at all.  Sound was still routing through to the device's speakers.  However, others have tested and found that USB Audio Recorder PRO does work on it.

 

As mentioned a few pages back, Paranoid 3.15 has USB audio built in on the international S3 build.  Apparently, it doesn't yet have it on the AT&T S3.  I wonder if it works on any of the Note 2 variants?

post #2096 of 5935

Nexus 4 working handsomely with ziddey's OTG kernel and jacknorris' patch (external power required ofc).

post #2097 of 5935

I think the power requirments of hrt microstreamer is 90ma 

 

http://www.pplaudio.com/hrt/doc/microstreamer.pdf

post #2098 of 5935
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
 

A fix of the USB Audio Recorder PRO could be done using two USB traces provided by HRT (which should have some USB analyzer):

. 1st USB trace capturing USB packets exchanging between a Galaxy S3 using USB Audio Recorder PRO and a HRT microStreamer
. 2nd USB trace capturing USB packets exchanging between a Galaxy S3 using native USB audio and a HRT microStreamer
 
It should be ideal if HRT and you forward to the USB Audio Recorder PRO development team the two mentioned USB traces as well as the USB descriptors of the HRT microStreamer and the USB Audio Recorder PRO log trace.

 

I would be happy to obtain and forward along the packet data from HRT but I don't think I should go bothering them for it when eXtream has yet to respond to my first email containing the debug log and the microStreamer USB descriptors.  I don't want to make HRT bend over backwards when eXtream, who's own website indicates they are aware of the incompatibility, has yet to show any effort to resolve the issue.  If eXtream requests additional information it would be my pleasure to facilitate the info transfer between them and HRT.

 

Thanks again to you and everyone else for your help.

 

Regards,

 

JW


Edited by BriX - 4/8/13 at 7:23pm
post #2099 of 5935

While we are on the topic of cables can I get confirmation that I selected the correct cables to connect my new rig..yet to arrive. Xperia Z to a Sony PHA-1 Micro USB to Micro USB.

Thanks for any input

Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, R1.1.1.M2a

post #2100 of 5935

A USB OTG device, like the Xperia Z, is a dual-role USB device, sometimes a USB host, sometimes a USB peripheral:

 

A USB OTG software program and USB OTG hardware components are included at the USB level.

A USB OTG device is configured to USB host mode or USB peripheral mode by USB OTG software/hardware measuring the value of the ID or Sense resistance (i.e. pin 4) of the USB interface.

 

 

1000

 

 

When the Micro-B plug of a regular cable is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the Sense resistance is greater than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB peripheral mode.

 

When the Micro-A plug of a so called OTG cable is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the Sense resistance is less than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB host mode.

 

USB is a master-slave communication bus: USB communication can only take place between a master device or USB host, and a slave device or USB peripheral.

 

As standard USB DAC, like the standard USB audio part of the Sony PHA-1, is operating as USB peripheral or B-device, the USB OTG-capable Android device, like the Xperia Z,  should operate as USB host or A-device or Micro-A plugged device.

 

According to the USB specification, the physical appearance of a Micro-A plug (related to A-device or USB host or USB master) should be different to the physical appearance of a Micro-B plug (related to B-device or USB peripheral or USB slave): this easy-to-use USB feature is aimed for human beings.

 

 

 

 

"According to USB spec, such a cable should be labelled with A and B on the overmolds on the ends.

Also, the A end should have a rectangular cross section, and the B end should be chamfered.

Now, I don't know if all the cable makers follow the spec or not."

http://www.head-fi.org/t/632019/apex-glacier-amp-dac-review-and-appreciation-thread/75#post_8812425

 

 

 

 

 

Also, some USB cable manufacturers use colour differentiation:

http://www.ttvjaudio.com/Connect_your_Galaxy_S3_to_the_Glacier_p/the0000104.htm

 

Xperia Z A-device > USB out >> red Micro-A plug to black Micro-B plug cable >> Sony PHA-1 B-device

 

 

 

 

USB OTG software / hardware components don’t base on the physical appearance of the plug to configure the USB OTG device to USB host mode or to USB peripheral mode: they measure the value of the ID or Sense resistance (i.e. pin 4) of the USB interface.


Edited by DanBa - 4/9/13 at 3:12am
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