Tyll I really didn't want to fire any discussion or pressure your pricing policies. But I'm quite outspoken and honest, and I believe I'm not the only person with the thoughts that I expressed above. So I think for you as a merchant/manufacturer/retailer and for us consumers it is a valuable exchange of ideas what we have in this thread.

Now, I will take your word for sure and will call Jamey tomorrow and I'll have to second Gpalmer's vote for Headroom even after all my rants on pricing and competitive advantages.

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No problem at all, I didn't find it too venomous after all so we're cool Thanks a lot for the note anyway,
Cheers,
Raul

Interesting...I do buy HeadRoom, but I enjoy surfing around the net to see what's the cheapest price I can find. I usually don't buy from the cheapest store because they're usually some crummy place that no one's heard of. Personally, I don't buy Walmart because of all the baggage that comes with it. Competitively, I like HR better because of their prescence in the community and also because their site is so much more user friendly than others. The pictures from different angles and not just manufacturer's shots is a nice touch as well.

Tyll,

I think you made a really good point. I've bought several times from Headroom knowing you weren't the lowest price. I know very little about headphones and headphone amps and your guys gave me honest advice and steered me away from higher priced amps and headphones even when I was ready to pay more.

If the day comes when there are no firms with excellent customer service we will all miss the likes of Headroom.

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Uhhh, Audioadvisor has online chatting available with their customer service representatives. I chatted with them twice in the last 2 days and both times they were very helpful in answering my questions. Low prices and good customer service are not mutually exclusive.

is $340 a good price for the HD-650s?

kelesh, i don't think Tyll was speaking about AA specifically. rather, how america is growing up looking for the best price, the cheapest way, and in the end are actually biting themselves in the ass because there is a high cost that comes with doing that. which may not be readily apparent, but it shows up in due time. do we want walmarts or personally owned companies that see you as a customer and not a number? do we want to run out all small business for big business? what happens when you run out all the small companies? the big ones up their prices because they have no one to compete with. would you rather have Headroom or a hole in the ground? would you rather have Fremont Market(was a local market in my hometown that went under when the owner of the land decided he wanted to make homes on that same land) or Safeway(big chain on the west coast that is trying to put the bill for health care onto it's workers)?

Do you want service with a smile from genuine caring people who are excited about the products you buy, or robots who give you the best price? You pay for what you get. I'm just glad a lot of us see there's a reason to pay that extra fee. (Which isn't always me, so I'm somewhat of a biggot... but I dont have a job atm, so I unfortunately do the 'search for best price' bit; hmm, think I ruined my whole argument).

Not to get religious.... but I happened to buy the HD650's and a Perreaux amp from AA. I didn't ask for any specific price--I simply asked what could they offer for the "package" (no one else sells Perreux) and I felt what I paid was "fair" not the cheapest and not MSRP.

I totally understand Tyll's thoughts--and I lived through a difficult period on the securities industry when every monkey on E-trade etc. who threw money into the market made a fortune. In the past 3 years, with the markets getting hammered, I'm doing better than ever. People try to commoditize everything--but I think people are decent, and we all feel a sense of wanting to help out the Head-Fi sponsors....I plan to do business with all the sponsors/enthusiasts. It's something I WANT to do and I'm sure many feel the same. We just all have a different "ouch" level I guess.

Now Tyll, about the custom Blockhead I want.....

Not to sound disingenuous or anything, i do support headphone hobby. I think we should Thank the likes of the industrial revolution, capatalism, for the fact we all seek and want the best price. Deep inside, i'm sorry to say on that note i'm selfish. I'm not the product of my environment, but this isn't donating blood, this is 50-100 dollars, which isn't change to me. I understand that you are looking for your ends and security, and on that note as am I. Call it hyprotical, but my impression is that of the average consumer. America would not be what it was today if it were not for that.

Anyways, FYI all, i went to headroom first to see if they could match the price. I would have rather given them the cash over AA (regardless of the fact i waited forever to get an email back 2 weeks in fact).

As much as I like supporting the supporters of this site, I think AudioAdvisor is head and shoulders over HeadRoom for customer support. Online or over the phone. I don't have anything against HeadRoom and would certainly do business with them again, but between the two I think AA actually answers the phone in a non-grumpy mood and tries to price match, etc. Course Todd comes into play (I think a former HeadRoom employee if memory servers), so if you want to support this community and deal with a nice guy at least keep him in mind. All these are part of the first visits (as oppose to crazyaudiopricesweloveyou.com), but after several experiences, that's my take.

I always want the best price--and I do what I can to obtain it. I didn't approach any of the sponsors, I wanted the Perreaux and the HD650's.

If the sponsors wanted to simply charge full MSRP and everyone else was offering some type of discount, I would not be inclined to buy the product even from my own mother (sorry mom-I'm still coming over Sunday ), but if they make an effort to "work" with me, and help me to enjoy my hobby in other way's (like this forum) then that has "value" too. I'm not saying it's $5 or $50 for that threshold.

This great country of ours is not great because we seek the best "price"--it's because we seek the best "value". People don't flock to NYC or San Francisco etc. because of the cheap prices... etc. but because they think it's "worth" it!!! Price is only a small (albeit important) component of value.

Well, after all I have to say kudos for HeadRoom Contacted Jamey in HR, and almost at the same time he had sent me an email indicating that HR was matching AA's price, true to Tyll's promise yesterday. Hence I have placed the order with HR and already called Beth in AA to cancel my pending order for the backordered 650's. The waiting time for HR will be shorter than with AA actually, so now HR truly has the edge imo. Thanks very much Tyll and Jamey!

Incidentally today I will receive the little Perreaux from AA, today UPS delivered my NS500V to Matthew in SACDMods for modding, and Todd will ship AKG 271's Monday or Tuesday. So with both open and closed cans, I'll be soon visiting Audio nirvana landscapes

Cheers,
Raul

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That speaks on behalf of most of us here I think.
Cheers,
Raul

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Can't say as I agree with you. I've found both to have excellent customer service, but I've gotten more enthusiasm from HeadRoom in the past.

I think that the real question is whether or not you would be spending more with or without head-fi. Having been able to utilize the information I got here, I was able to make a number of informed purchases. Maybe I didn't get the best price, but I tell you what, if I had started elsewhere, even if I was getting a better price, by the time I finally got exactly what I wanted, the amount of time and money lost in a blind quest for upgrades would be far more. If not for head-fi, I probably would have ordered the HD-600 instead of 650, then I would have had to upgrade again in a year. I have been down this path before. Also, I think customer service is an undervalued asset. I like for shopping to be enjoyable, not frustrating. If I can be totally comfortable knowing that I am getting treated the best possible, I am willing to pay more. The problem is many people don't share this viewpoint (yet still complain when they get crappy service). I don't like being on hold for 2 hours or being sent to a number of different departments. I also think that the more money we give to big buisinesses, many of whom are taking jobs out of our country, we are hutring our own economy, which we all pay for. I guess I just appreciate someone doing a good honest job, rather than pandering around for the lowest prices, regardless of impact. And someone said that once the small stores are gone, the big ones will control the marketplace, this is so true. If you look at the approach Japan took in the mid 1900s in selling TVs in America, they sold them for less than cost, until the American companies couldn't compete. Once they had a stranglehold on the market, prices started to increase sharply until other economic forces started to balance the scale. This is not an endorsement for any particualr sponsor, though I can say that having dealt with Todd and having bought some of Jan's stuff, I am very glad that I chose to support our sponsors, as I will be taking advantage of the suppor they provide this community. I have only one statement for our sponsers that is not of total support specifically HR. When I was looking around at the different sponsors, I noticed HR charges twice as much as Todd for Senn airplane adapters; this increase in price I have a harder time explaining/justifying as both are small company supporters of head-fi. It is difficult to justify such a purchase from HR IMHO.

Cheers,
-Silby