It's always the way. I bought the HD600 thinking they were going to be the best, then lots of other phones sort of turned up

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But $225 not-poorer?

The CD3k's sound like Thiel speakers, the 600's like Dunlavy's. I'll take the Dunlavy sound anyday.

Most people that start out in hi-fi are wowed/impressed by the krell/Thiel/paradigm/Klipsch sound (strong bass & bright highs), but from my experience this gets old after a while and you look for something that is closer to neutral or maybe even a bit laid back. Such people usually end up many times with tubed gear or with speakers like Dunlavy, Dynaudio, or Sonus Faber. I think a lot of people start w/HD600's that are not "ready" to appreciate their sound, and they quickly get seduced by other more exciting sounding cans. I started w/600's 2 years ago, went through a slew of other cans, and am now back to really appreciating and preferring the 600's presentation and strengths. Just my $.10

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You might like to slew more

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Well yes indeed.

I am actually loaning the 580's. I did not expect to like them. I quite like forward sounding speakers (I have Missions which are quite forward), and yet the 580's sound pretty close to these Missions out of the same amp.

So maybe my speakers are not as forward as I thought they were (but many still do regard them as forward). Or could it be that bright headphones are more fatiguing than bright speakers.

I am just not sure about anything anymore

But what I am sure about is that I feel the 580's / 600's are coming under a fair amount of unfair flak lately. They sound exciting when they need to be, but not when they dont (maybe this is the forwardness of my amp).

I can get these for just over $100 in the UK. For that price, they are outstanding. There is no two ways about it for me.

Maybe my tastes have changed...

When I swap between the DT990 and HD580, the 990 immediately sounds the most impressive. However, in the longer term it would seem the 580 is easier to listen to, and just as musical without overdoing it in the bass and treble. The 580 midrange is FAR superior to that of the 990.

I listen to mostly techno and trance, and I find these more than acceptable to be honest.....

Anyway, thats enough from me for tonight, I am going to hit the sack...

Good night

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[/size]Tyson, I went through a very similar process, including headphones by Grado (SR-60, SR-80, SR-325, HP-1), Beyer (DT-990 Pro), Etymotic (ER-4S, which I still use, but only when listening in areas with a lot of ambient noise), AKG (K-340, K-240S), and have listened to countless other models I haven't owned. I've sold a couple of sets of HD-600s, and gave a set to my brother, only to replace them again to get back to where I was before, and that's with two of 'em (using one set at the office and one at home).

With the Meier Audio Corda PREHEAD (which I own one of), HeadRoom Max (which I own two of), and Emmeline HR-2 (with the right opamps), the HD-600 is stellar, and a headphone that I have yet to tire of. With the HeadRoom BlockHead or Antique Sound Lab TwinHead Mark II, the HD-600 opens up soundscapes that are among the best I've ever experienced from any rig, speaker or headphone, and I've been around hi-fi for a long time.

I understand it's all about personal preferences. The Sennheiser HD-600, properly fed, is currently very much what I'm looking for (and I seriously hope the HD-650 betters it for me).

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IMO, the 580s are really something special with techno, trance and ambient stuff -- other than classical, I think they really shine in this area. I don't think they're that hot with progressive rock & metal, but aren't exactly unlistenable (they don't seem to convey the "rock attack" tho... fans of hard rock will know what a "rock attack" is in terms of raw emotional experience ).

This is not to say they do certain types of music better... more a matter of the huge, diffuse soundstage with the 580/600. I personally prefer that intimate, close-up feeling with certain types of hard rock and metal... by design, the 580/600 don't give it. But IMO you can't have both "in your face" combined with openness and expansiveness.... these are mutually exclusive properties. At best a pair of cans could provide a "happy medium" (I don't think the 580/600 does -- it definitely leans toward the expansive, diffuse and open side of things).

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I believe a majority of the 'unfair flak' is originating from the younger members of headfi. Ones who grew up listening to sizzling highs, boomy bass and electronic music as their reference. As such, I can see why they would find the Senn. 580/600 'boring'. It's quite heartening to see a younger member such as yourself, appreciating the Senns. for what they are.....good phones.


Tyson:

I think your post hit it right on the head! I like Dunlavy's, too.

Tyson, I read comparisons or analogies sometimes and they make good points. I see the point you are trying to make in your theil /cd3000 comparison; but in doing so you impart a relationship in peoples thoughts that may be valid in your experience but not to others. I hate theil speakers and I really like cd 3000's. I see no connection with my listening experiences why you would lump those two together. I dont discount your opinion, I just dont see it that way. Puppyslugg, I also dont see the hd600 being bashed mainly by younger listeners who are used to bright highs and boomy bass. I am 47 and grew up with analog and had cursed digital until about 5 years ago, when digital finally began to overcome the seemingly characteristic digital glare and edginess. I like a warm sound with body and richness, but music also has power/ speed and when its exceptionally good, a sense of life and light. I dont believe the criticism with the 580/600's is because of no bass or dull highs; mostly people talk about the veil. I hear the veil as a suckout in the tonal balance that makes the sound to distant and removed. I can see with a little adjustment in this balance the senns could be stunning. I am hoping the hd 650 does just that.

sacdlover,
I can only relate my own experiences, and to me the cd3k's have a similar balance to thiels. I'm curious what speakers you find them closest to, tonally?

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Where in the frequency range would you say this "suckout" is occurring?

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Actually if you read this boards (not so recently) you would be "obligated" of loving them....all what you can read were praises for them...like a big cult...Hail Sennsheiser!!!!!
That was a "monarchy" over years here (and right now is about to take the power again, with the new upcomming HD650, you will see in a few weeks) when first I became member of those forums about two years ago, I even got a pair of the HD600 following those suggestions, there was no other suggestion at those early days, even now if you even think in post against them, even being in your opinion, you will burn in hell, before.... Thanks God CD3KLF is making some progress.....

Here come the "CD3k liberation front" headphone terrorist... Anyone got a gas mask?

At least the ignore function works, and works well (thank god for small favors).

I wanted to put in an addenum to my post above - sometimes people genuinely prefer a more upfront sound and never change that preference. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and more power to them, I am happy for them. My post above is ONLY referring to people who start out liking an upfront sound and end up liking a more relaxed sound.

And, since we all hear slightly (or sometimes not so slightly) differently, what is "neutral" to me will be too laid back for others, and what I consider laid back, they consider "comatose". Sometimes this is not a matter of preference, but actually a matter of real differences in how sounds are heard by different individuals.

So, what I'm trying to say is that all the talk and all the postings on line about good sound can only ever act as a guide to something for people to check out, but no one can every tell another person what "sounds better" than anything else w/much definitiveness. The best we can do is try to characterize the sound we hear and offer an idea of what it "might" sound like to another person.

Tyson, I think theils are edgy; talking cs2_2 /cs1.5. I think the cd3000 sounds more like a psb stratus bronze tonally but with a more refined treble like my JMLabs speakers. I cant think of a speaker that sounds exactly like the 3k's. They are fuller and richer than my JM's but more open on top like the JM's.
Fewtch, I dont know. I do know they sound like a set of paradigmn active 20's I had in that they always created a sense of depth no matter what the music. Turning up the volume never brings the sound closer; its always to distant. Vocalists seem to far back in relation to the instruments around them (I LISTEN MAINLY TO ROCK AND BLUES). To get them to have any presense and dynamics requires I turn them up to loud, and I cant stand the music to loud and give up. If the hd650's correct this then I am ready to get in line to try some