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Sennheiser HD800 vs. JH-13 Pro: Battle of the Titans - Page 3

post #31 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushNerd View Post
Natural crossfeed?? I haven't heard that one yet, does that have to do with the fact that they are open headphones, or is there something else involved? This is highly interesting.
Yeah, they're not really headphones, but ear speakers. Sound coming from one side is audible in the opposite ear.
post #32 of 97
Music can be deceiving in comparing frequency response. Run some test tones and you'll see what I mean.

I have nothing against the JH-13 or Jerry. It's just physically impossible for armatures to produce 20-20 without some external form of enhancement. I know many many people love the sound of armatures and I believe that its a amazing feat that some manufactures can manipulate armatures to sound that good. Armatures alone cannot produce full range. That is why you have multiple armatures and even then, the far edge frequencies are lacking. that is when cross overs and passive EQs come into play.

I am no engineer nor am I a audio purist but I did some research about armatures because my experience with them annoyed me so much. By running some hearing test tones proved what I was thinking all along.
post #33 of 97
i dont know how many people who have commented on comfort have actually worn custom molded ear inserts but they are very comfortable. This also does amazing things for the sound quality.

that said it still is $1100 (+ the audiologist appointment) with little chance of a resale so its a life long purchase. Its too bad the molds arent easily removed/swapable.
post #34 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunneebear View Post
Music can be deceiving in comparing frequency response. Run some test tones and you'll see what I mean.

I have nothing against the JH-13 or Jerry. It's just physically impossible for armatures to produce 20-20 without some external form of enhancement. I know many many people love the sound of armatures and I believe that its a amazing feat that some manufactures can manipulate armatures to sound that good. Armatures alone cannot produce full range. That is why you have multiple armatures and even then, the far edge frequencies are lacking. that is when cross overs and passive EQs come into play.

I am no engineer nor am I a audio purist but I did some research about armatures because my experience with them annoyed me so much. By running some hearing test tones proved what I was thinking all along.
Not all armatures are equal. In this case the JH13 has two bass drivers. I'm not gonna say it does 10Hz or even 13Hz with great control, but 16-20Hz should be do-able with tight control for 2 lightnight fast drivers working together. The same can be said for the extreme highs. You are one of the very few who are that particular about the extreme ends of the frequency spectrum. The IEMs you have experienced don't come anywhere near high-end customs in terms of response range (or anything else). Instead of adhering to your generalized perception of IEMs, I suggest you go into the IEMs subforum and review the threads there about the JH13-Pro and the ES3X; because there are experienced audiophiles there who own both full-size dynamic and electrostatic headphones, some of which are selling their headphones and gears after hearing the JH13.
post #35 of 97
Thread Starter 
^^^ Both posts are food for thought. It seems as if there is a disagreement over whether or not armatures are capable of of deep bass. In fact, let's hold JH Audio to the flames. For the JH-13 Pro, there is a claimed frequency response down to 10 Hz. Is there someone out there who can produce the science of whether or not this kind of bass is possible with armatures?
post #36 of 97
Yes I know that I am very picky about reproducing the full spectrum of human hearing. That is because I am blessed to be able to still hear the full spectrum. Remember that 20-20 is just the norm. Most headphones and speakers exceed that greatly. At my age I should start to lose the upper frequencies. Fortunately I haven't.

If Jerry's specs are not bloated, great. I don't have the details of the drivers he uses to know that it is some newer armatures. When the specs say six driver/3 way crossover, does that not sound like same old drivers stacked together with passive EQing? Would you want to plug your headphones into a EQ before going to your source or player?
post #37 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhunternyc View Post
^^^ Both posts are food for thought. It seems as if there is a disagreement over whether or not armatures are capable of of deep bass. In fact, let's hold JH Audio to the flames. For the JH-13 Pro, there is a claimed frequency response down to 10 Hz. Is there someone out there who can produce the science of whether or not this kind of bass is possible with armatures?
Not just the bass. I actually have more trouble with the treble. Are armatures capable of 20Khz?
post #38 of 97
It seems like low frequencies aren't much of a problem.



High-frequency extension on the other hand seems to be more problematic.
.
post #39 of 97
is there anyone that liked the HD800 more than the JH13?
post #40 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunneebear View Post
When the specs say six driver/3 way crossover, does that not sound like same old drivers stacked together with passive EQing? Would you want to plug your headphones into a EQ before going to your source or player?
Do you own a decent set of speakers? Chances are your speakers have at least a 2-way or 3-way crossover also. Go tell a speaker audiophile that the crossovers in his speakers are going to mess up his sound because it's basically EQ and see what the response is.
post #41 of 97
This thread just goes to show how inane polls can be on this site. At this time, 16 people have voted that the HD800s are better than the JH13s for which only 13 people have voted. Since neither have been out for very long, and I'm pretty aware of most head-fiers owning or spending extensive time with both, there's absolutely no way 29 owners of both have voted. I wonder how many votes were cast by people who owned or heard neither. Besides, of those I know who own/owned both, I don't know of one who prefers the HD800, though that doesn't mean they don't respect it as well.
post #42 of 97
The IEMs are getting too full of themselves. Heck, let's throw a Sennheiser Orpheus into this battle. Let's see how the JH13 do then.
post #43 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurryup View Post
The IEMs are getting too full of themselves. Heck, let's throw a Sennheiser Orpheus into this battle. Let's see how the JH13 do then.
Hahaha, you have no idea... they've already compared the best electrostats to the JH13 in the JH13 appreciation thread. If you ask these guys which has better sound quality, most would agree that they're on equal grounds. If you ask them which would they rather have, even if money is not an issue, most would pick the JH13 for its portability and ability to sound incredible even out of a portable player, and even better out of a relatively inexpensive amp.
post #44 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post
Hahaha, you have no idea... they've already compared the best electrostats to the JH13 in the JH13 appreciation thread. If you ask these guys which has better sound quality, most would agree that they're on equal grounds. If you ask them which would they rather have, even if money is not an issue, most would pick the JH13 for its portability and ability to sound incredible even out of a portable player, and even better out of a relatively inexpensive amp.

The comparison here is with sound and not portability or amping. To be able to afford any hi-end dynamic, electrostatic or the JH-13 means that price is also not the issue either.

With sound comes the human element. This is where everything changes and technical specs are almost meaningless.
Example: The ever popular ER4. Look at the treble response in the Headroom graph provided by Jazz. That's just terrible treble response compared to any dynamic headphone. On the other hand the ER4 is claimed to have wonderful treble by so many users.

Some JH-13 users say the treble and detail is in the league of full size headphones like the HD800 or Omega II. Really? That's the human element at work again. The JH-13 claims 20khz while the HD800 and O2 are capable of over 40khz.
I think everyone has heard of the mosquito ring tone and sonic teen deterrent. That's only 17.4khz and most adults can't hear it. So comparing a 20khz device to >40khz device for treble reproduction just does not add up. This is all my point of view and I hope that I did not step on any one's toes with my comments.
post #45 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detrex View Post
Actually those treble roll offs are intended. You need to attenuate the treble since the drivers are so close to the ears. But at 20,000hz there should be no more than a 10db drop off. All of those IEM's fail especially the Shure SE420's.
At least Shure specs don't seem to exaggerate their response like some other manufacturers.
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