[leng jai]

I don't know how people can stand "bright" headphones when so many recordings are already mixed with a treble spike. Its all well and good when the recording is balanced but when its not the result is disgusting. Bright can with a bright recording = pain.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

 I wonder what makes you say that? I can think of no reason why there should be sibilance in a recording unless a singer were standing too close to a mike (unlikely even then) or someone on the recording desk added treble in a narrow band (equally unlikely). If you mean that the recording exhibits sibilance on every headphone you've tried bar one, there's a good case for suggesting the other headphones are too bright, which would accord with my experience of every headphone bar the 650 and 555/595. If you think it's drawing too long a bow to suggest that the majority of phones on the market are too bright, go to a concert of live music, preferrably classical or jazz, and then take a listen to popular phones like the Beyer DT880, Denon D2000, AKG 702 or just about any Grado or AT model on the same type of material. It's very easy to get used to unnaturally bright phones and even prefer them, and I've read a million posts here about 595s being "boring" when I know they're much more naturally balanced than most other popular phones including many at twice the price. Ultimately, there's no substitute for live music when it comes to judging headphones.  

All sibilant recordings for me have been so with the HD650's.  It's just that it's not at all irksome.  Even with the HD800's, I don't find sibilant recordings irksome... but just .... sibilant.   When I say sibilant recording, I mean a recording that is characteristically sibilant.  A good example is 'The Phantom of the Opera' on Andrew Lloyd Webber's Premiere Collection.  That song is full of sibilance and the HD650 certainly reproduces all those sibilant moments.

 

[RedBull]

Quote:

I hear a lot about how dark the hd650's are etc. And I hear the term neutral tossed around often when comparing to other headphones (akg k 701). But let me ask you, when you say SSSSSSSSSSSSSSStuff, there is no grating sibilance no matter how loud you say it, I couldn't care less if your headphones are flat if they emphasize a grating sibilance, you can chock that up to the recording all you want, but what I hear is that the hd650's are NATURAL.
 
When you hear bass, it is not always tight and defined, some artists intend their bass to be heavy hitting, while other music, like jazz, demands a tight string pluck defined. 
 
I feel like the hd650's can do both, while cans like akg k 701 can only do 1.
 
Natural natural natural, loving my hd650's.
 
-A R
 

Well said !!!

 

[Mediaogre]

I definitely get and agree with pp312 on the live music comment vs bright headphones. I was at a concert a couple weeks ago that was painful. Generally too loud? Yes, but the highs were over-compensating and hissing like mad. That's sibilance. That's how I perceive sibilance in headphones and/or recordings - overly stressed highs. I don't attribute sibilance to just the presence of too much "SSSS" in vocals. I've still got a lot to learn about the tech and terms, but it seems to me that any recording with a treble spike paired with phones with zero treble roll off is at times going to push the driver into the pain zone. At that point, you're getting close to "natural" sounding (if you're comparing it to most live music) but that's not the same to me as what the artist or mastering engineer intended.
 
For me, natural means dynamic balance and that's what sounds natural to me. For good or bad, when I listed to a quality source file on my HD650s, I feel like I'm hearing what was intended. Now, do I have some hearing loss? Yeah, a little. I've been in a friend's studio and I cannot hear jack beyond 15 kHz. Does that affect my perception of sibilance? Likely. But that's another facet to this topic.

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

I definitely get and agree with pp312 on the live music comment vs bright headphones. I was at a concert a couple weeks ago that was painful. Generally too loud? Yes, but the highs were over-compensating and hissing like mad. That's sibilance. That's how I perceive sibilance in headphones and/or recordings - overly stressed highs. I don't attribute sibilance to just the presence of too much "SSSS" in vocals. I've still got a lot to learn about the tech and terms, but it seems to me that any recording with a treble spike paired with phones with zero treble roll off is at times going to push the driver into the pain zone. At that point, you're getting close to "natural" sounding (if you're comparing it to most live music) but that's not the same to me as what the artist or mastering engineer intended.
 
For me, natural means dynamic balance and that's what sounds natural to me. For good or bad, when I listed to a quality source file on my HD650s, I feel like I'm hearing what was intended. Now, do I have some hearing loss? Yeah, a little. I've been in a friend's studio and I cannot hear jack beyond 15 kHz. Does that affect my perception of sibilance? Likely. But that's another facet to this topic.

 
Last concert I went to was before I learned about this site and before I see another show I'm definitely going to invest in some quality ear plugs just in case.
 
I'm a newb on tech and terms as well but for me the HD 650s seem like a great compromise between fidelity and listenability (sic lol). That's probably why they are loved so much is that they are accurate enough to be considered "reference grade" yet forgiving enough to allow us to enjoy whatever music we love.
 

 

 

 

[Mediaogre]

Quote:

Last concert I went to was before I learned about this site and before I see another show I'm definitely going to invest in some quality ear plugs just in case.
 
I'm a newb on tech and terms as well but for me the HD 650s seem like a great compromise between fidelity and listenability (sic lol). That's probably why they are loved so much is that they are accurate enough to be considered "reference grade" yet forgiving enough to allow us to enjoy whatever music we love.
 

 

 

Yeah, I imagine that show was loud. The Super Mutants have terrible hearing. 

 
I just recently forgot my earplugs for a Katatonia show. Luckily the venue allows ins-and-outs to the lounge, a policy I took advantage of during the opening bands.
 
Anyway, well put. And your economy of words is admirable. 

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

Yeah, I imagine that show was loud. The Super Mutants have terrible hearing. 

 
I just recently forgot my earplugs for a Katatonia show. Luckily the venue allows ins-and-outs to the lounge, a policy I took advantage of during the opening bands.
 
Anyway, well put. And your economy of words is admirable. 

 
Thank you for your kind words.
 
The Super Mutants? Another band I'm not familiar with. Will have to give it a listen.
 
The way I understand sibilance, which I haven't really learned but just through the word itself, is any sound that is shrill or causes even a slight physical reaction to that sound. I've been waiting to hear any in my current setup and so far so good. When the vocals get to that high note it's been smooth sailing so far. (I'll give the recording itself some credit 

)
 

 

 

[Mediaogre]

Quote:

 
Thank you for your kind words.
 
The Super Mutants? Another band I'm not familiar with. Will have to give it a listen.
 
 

Sorry. It was a stretch. I was goofing and making a Fallout video game reference. (Your location - Capital Wasteland?)

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

Sorry. It was a stretch. I was goofing and making a Fallout video game reference. (Your location - Capital Wasteland?)

 
I'm quite tired and quite dense at times, but then I googled it and it is actually a punk rock band. 

 
Aye, Fallout 3 specifically, lovely game. Which reminds me, New Vegas or whatever should be coming out soon.
 
On topic, I really wish my HD 650s sounded like my LCD-2s as they were so freaking comfortable it makes me sad. Properly broken in + compatible head shape = bliss.
 

 

 

[dallan]

Put my HD650s on and plugged the Zu Mobius cable into the Zana Duex again.  I'd forgotten how lovely they sound.  Been spending so much time with my HD800s and DX1000(when noisy here) that the HD650s have had no play time.  Gotta remember when i am in the mood for nice smooth sound they fit the bill soooo well.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 I wonder what makes you say that?

Because its the truth. Sadly many recordings (even modern day) can be poorly done...and include sibilance. Just try any Diana Krall CDs (including her latest release). Sibilance on ALL my headphones, amps, home theater, cars, etc....
 

 

[AmbientRevolut]

For me, (I can't speak for anyone else) but this hobby isn't about revealing every little fault in music such that 99% of my library becomes unlistanable. There are songs that I absolutely love, that perhaps are poorly recorded or just sound to harsh on other headphones. Those are sibilant on my MD2000's but not on my HD650's. I'm not about to toss out some of my favorite songs because of some audio snobbery.
 
I find that the hd650's do a few things quite remarkably:
 
1) Texture the music so richly, you can feel the texture of every instrument, be it synthetic or real or voice.
 
2) Still have great highs when called for, but without a touch of sibilance, making 100% of my music collection listenable, and enjoyable.
 
3) It finds a way to present the music in a laid back and pleasing manner, WITHOUT loseing details, if you listen for them.
 
-A R

 

[aimlink]

Just switched to my Ed8's and had to switch back.  I prefer the HD650's!!  

 
With the HD650's I can enable the crossfeed with one of the filters on my UltraDesktop.  I can't do so with my Ed8's, though I admit, EQ'ing the Ed8's would help.  In that sense it wasn't a really fair comparison in that I didn't tune the Ed8's sound to my own ears.
 
Right now, the HD650's are truly great, but the HD800's are even greater.  Kudo's to these cans... they're a wonderful deal when compared to their more expensive brethren. 

 

[dallan]

^^Aimlink....What headphones do you own? the 800s, i guess the ED-8 and 650s.   You don't have any gear listed in your profile?  Wanted to get an idea of what you use so i can evaluate your comments on 650 and 800 on this and the other thread.
Thanks.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

^^Aimlink....What headphones do you own? the 800s, i guess the ED-8 and 650s.   You don't have any gear listed in your profile?  Wanted to get an idea of what you use so i can evaluate your comments on 650 and 800 on this and the other thread.
Thanks.

I have those you mentioned as well as the K702's, HD600's, Grado RS2i and 325is.  I also owned a D5000.
My amp and DAC is the HeadRoom UltraDesktop.