[jonathan c]

I have been very lucky lately. A few days ago I received this rectifier tube RFT (Funkwerk ERFURT) EZ81 6CA4 (1965) NOS

Somehow, I still think that changes when you roll will be subtle.....not my experience at all. This tube made an amazing difference. Tamped down on any sibilance. Dead quiet......and increased the soundstage dramatically. Still a little bit stunned by the change. Really lit up my Aeolus. Not gonna tinker any more....well, not right away

I use RFT EZ81 foil getter rectifier tubes in the Woo WA2. Fantastic !! [I have felt that since the rectifier tube is at the ‘start’ of the amp circuit and is integral to the AC—>DC conversion, the rectifier tube directly affects the performance of any tubes ‘further down’ the amp circuit.]

 

[Wes S]

Those more familiar than I am with different tubes, such as @Wes S , since I’ve been loving the various Brimar / Footscray tubes for the 12AU/T/X7 socket, I’m curious if there are any recommended Brimar EL84 tubes out there and if they have a similar sound? Thanks!

I have seen some Brimar EL84's in the wild, but all the one's I have seen are latter production from the Rochester factory. I personally have never been a fan of the Rochester made Brimars (too warm & smooth overall) so I have never tried their EL84's, however if I ever find (I have been hunting for a while) some Footscray made EL84's I will buy them in a hearbeat.

 

[Wes S]

A little tube advice…..here is my current line up and I like it:
Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
Amperex EZ81 (rectifier)

However, I find that this combination has a slight sibilance….you really hear the “s’s”, especially on female vocals. Noticeable on the Aeolus, really noticeable on the HD800s’. I can EQ it mostly out…but what tubes does one look at to resolve?

I know….first world problem, but curious.

A tube with a similar sound to the CV4033, but also a bit smoother and warmer that might help with the sibilance is the Brimar CV4034.

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles

 

[28Monkey]

A little tube advice…..here is my current line up and I like it:
Brimar CV4033 ('57) Footscray ECC81:12AT7 (input)
Mullard (Valvo) Blackburn (60's) 6BQ5 EL84 (power)
Amperex EZ81 (rectifier)

However, I find that this combination has a slight sibilance….you really hear the “s’s”, especially on female vocals. Noticeable on the Aeolus, really noticeable on the HD800s’. I can EQ it mostly out…but what tubes does one look at to resolve?

I know….first world problem, but curious.

A tube with a similar sound to the CV4033, but also a bit smoother and warmer that might help with the sibilance is the Brimar CV4034.

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles

Thanks @Wes S. What is the difference between the 12ax/at/au family of tubes…simply gain? Or is that too simplistic?

 

[Wes S]

Thanks @Wes S. What is the difference between the 12ax/at/au family of tubes…simply gain? Or is that too simplistic?

No prob. I have noticed using the Pendant, that with the change in gain there is a change in the soundstage as well, as in the 12AU7 is a bit more open, and as you go up in gain to the 12AT7 and then 12AX7 the sound becomes more forward/intimate.

 

[jonathan c]

No prob. I have noticed that with the change in gain there is a change in the soundstage as well, as in the 12AU7 is a bit more open, and as you go up in gain to the 12AT7 and then 12AX7 the sound becomes more forward/intimate.

I would add that, to me, there is a correlation within the 12A#7 family between airiness / openness / soundstage and whether the tube is ‘triple mica’ versus ‘double mica’.

 

[28Monkey]

Thanks @Wes S and @jonathan c …..comments VERY much appreciated.
Lots of blind alleys in this hobby. Guidance is valuable.

 

[Wes S]

Been doing some rectifier rolling the last couple of days and thought I would share my findings. I have my power tubes and driver tube dialed in with some Tungsram EL84 Welded Plate Foil O Getters (earliest version) and a made in Footscray Brimar CV491 Long Plate D Getter, and of all the power and driver tubes I have rolled I am getting the most "lifelike" sound with this combo. In fact, those power tubes and driver tube are so much better than all my other tubes at sounding "real", that they are not leaving the amp until they die. So, this leaves the rectifier and having been rolling between a Mullard EZ81 Square Getter (earliest version with wrinkled glass from Blackburn 54'), Funkwerk Erfurt (RFT) EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Getter, Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Getter, Raytheon EZ81 Welded Plate Triple Mica Square Getter (made in Japan), and last but most definitely not least the G.E.C. U709 Black Plate Square Getter, and there is a clearly one that has risen above the pack. The G.E.C. U709 is the winner and is pure freaking magic in the Pendant, and what it does to the soundstage and detail is stunning compared to the other tubes. Rolling in the U709 opens up the stage and it becomes much more holographic and immersive, and the added detail is really something special. The imaging and bass tightens up as well, and there is warmth but it never sounds bloated or overdone. Rolling in the U709 takes the amp to another level, and if you can find one and afford it, I say buy it without hesitation.

Happy hunting, rolling, and listening!

 

[Wes S]

Yesterday, I hooked up my VC for the first time in a long while to my Pendant SE and I had forgotten how magical this pairing is.

As much as I love the Atticus and Pendant SE pairing, the VC pairing is just as magical (actually more magical, but don't let my Atty's know ). The Pendant pushes the mids forward on the VC, and they become so detailed, euphoric and textured it's awesome, and combined with the speed/immediacy, impact and very holographic soundstage it's a breathtaking experience with well recorded Folk, Jazz or anything Acoustic.

 

[hikaru12]

Has anyone compared the Pendant to the Elekit TU8600? By the time you do the transformer and cap upgrades you're probably around the $2.5K asking price of the Pendant so curious on stuff like detail, soundstage, etc.

 

[Noodlz]

ah man. whew i finally made it through all 65 pages. i dont remember the last time i did this within 3 days lol. I just got my pendant OG on monday and god i love this amp. at first it underwelming and everything was super dead sounding and congested. I had put in the stock JJs and im assuming these tubes weren't run much and the amp wasn't run much either, or it had just not been run for a bit, or the fact i listened during mid day and didn't give it any time to warm up.

In anycase, put on the better tubes (RFT EZ81 notsurewhatyear, TungSol EL84 new production, Brimar 4068, made-in-england BVA?) and let it run for like 2 hours and oh man this thing is the best amp ive had. Period. Superior clarity and punch across the board and a good tier above everything else i've owned thus far. It does come with some caveats though.

Issue #1 - minor - this thing sounds closer to a solid state, like an incredibly good and natural sweet sounding one. But it doesnt' have the liquid / syrup / caramel / bloom flavor that a tube amp would have. Compared to my WA6SE which i thought sounded pretty solid state already, that thing now sounds very tube-y. I wonder now if i can find a tube combo to give it that bllom kinda flavor, especially to give sorta a "breath" to the vocals like the woo WA6SE and other tube amps.

Issue #2 - Noise. ah man. this thing is so close to perfect, except for this. and obviously people have noted this, but i'll share my experience so far and hopefully this helps someone else too. So the stock JJs are definitely noisy, and the tubes that im rolling now are better, but still not perfect. Here are my findings so far:

• As time went on / continued use of the amp, the noise has significantly reduced, and im hoping it continues to get less and less. i had the same thing with my WA6SE. the tone of the hum in the pendant is very very similar if not the same as the WA6SE and i'm pretty positive this is the transformer
• To add to that, i've tested this amp with EVERYTHING turned off in the room except the amp, and kept phones away, and loaded music on a dap (Shanling M6 AKM version) and played to it. so this hum is consistent no matter the volume, sounds just like the transformer sound when you get close to the amp. With everything back on the hum volume is consistent so i know its not my environment. (im using Triplite isobars for power)
• With better tubes, the low Z is practically silent with sennheiser hd650/580, the high Z tap still has that transformer hum
• HOWEVER. on my 3 planars, they are practically silent on high Z as well. (LCD 2.1, Aeon Flow Open, HE5XX)
• Note: strangely, the AFO sounds louder out of the Low Z, and actually much better here.
• Also, i heard that upgrading the Choke is supposed to help out a lot with the noise, would need to send this baby back to justin if thats what i decide to do.

So in summary, this thing is perfect for planar headphones, but has issues running dynamic headphones on high Z if you're sensitive to noise and get annoyed hearing that hum like me. BUT, you could just run low Z for the dynamic headphones and it sounds fantastic still. it does bring more dynamics and more punch on the High Z, and everything sounds a bit more present/forward.

Which is now why i'm out there hunting for dead-silent tubes to see if i can get it to where i want it to be. I've got a pair of RCA 7186 EL84's on the way, as well as the 57' footscray from pulse, and some RTF ECC81 (o-getters tho), EZ81, and EL84s from the ebay delax777mechanics guy. Also now looking

@Wes S @jonathan c @steve468 @4LoveOfSound if you have any reccos on tubes that would really give some fluidity / liquidness / bloom that would also be dead silent, that waould be amaaazing. I'm currently browsing VintageTubeServices since that's apparently the secret to silent tubes. Trying to score a set of totally silent tubes as my reference point before i roll more from ebay

And now back (focusing on) the music.

 

[Wes S]

ah man. whew i finally made it through all 65 pages. i dont remember the last time i did this within 3 days lol. I just got my pendant OG on monday and god i love this amp. at first it underwelming and everything was super dead sounding and congested. I had put in the stock JJs and im assuming these tubes weren't run much and the amp wasn't run much either, or it had just not been run for a bit, or the fact i listened during mid day and didn't give it any time to warm up.

In anycase, put on the better tubes (RFT EZ81 notsurewhatyear, TungSol EL84 new production, Brimar 4068, made-in-england BVA?) and let it run for like 2 hours and oh man this thing is the best amp ive had. Period. Superior clarity and punch across the board and a good tier above everything else i've owned thus far. It does come with some caveats though.

Issue #1 - minor - this thing sounds closer to a solid state, like an incredibly good and natural sweet sounding one. But it doesnt' have the liquid / syrup / caramel / bloom flavor that a tube amp would have. Compared to my WA6SE which i thought sounded pretty solid state already, that thing now sounds very tube-y. I wonder now if i can find a tube combo to give it that bllom kinda flavor, especially to give sorta a "breath" to the vocals like the woo WA6SE and other tube amps.

Issue #2 - Noise. ah man. this thing is so close to perfect, except for this. and obviously people have noted this, but i'll share my experience so far and hopefully this helps someone else too. So the stock JJs are definitely noisy, and the tubes that im rolling now are better, but still not perfect. Here are my findings so far:

• As time went on / continued use of the amp, the noise has significantly reduced, and im hoping it continues to get less and less. i had the same thing with my WA6SE. the tone of the hum in the pendant is very very similar if not the same as the WA6SE and i'm pretty positive this is the transformer
• To add to that, i've tested this amp with EVERYTHING turned off in the room except the amp, and kept phones away, and loaded music on a dap (Shanling M6 AKM version) and played to it. so this hum is consistent no matter the volume, sounds just like the transformer sound when you get close to the amp. With everything back on the hum volume is consistent so i know its not my environment. (im using Triplite isobars for power)
• With better tubes, the low Z is practically silent with sennheiser hd650/580, the high Z tap still has that transformer hum
• HOWEVER. on my 3 planars, they are practically silent on high Z as well. (LCD 2.1, Aeon Flow Open, HE5XX)
• Note: strangely, the AFO sounds louder out of the Low Z, and actually much better here.
• Also, i heard that upgrading the Choke is supposed to help out a lot with the noise, would need to send this baby back to justin if thats what i decide to do.

So in summary, this thing is perfect for planar headphones, but has issues running dynamic headphones on high Z if you're sensitive to noise and get annoyed hearing that hum like me. BUT, you could just run low Z for the dynamic headphones and it sounds fantastic still. it does bring more dynamics and more punch on the High Z, and everything sounds a bit more present/forward.

Which is now why i'm out there hunting for dead-silent tubes to see if i can get it to where i want it to be. I've got a pair of RCA 7186 EL84's on the way, as well as the 57' footscray from pulse, and some RTF ECC81 (o-getters tho), EZ81, and EL84s from the ebay delax777mechanics guy. Also now looking

@Wes S @jonathan c @steve468 @4LoveOfSound if you have any reccos on tubes that would really give some fluidity / liquidness / bloom that would also be dead silent, that waould be amaaazing. I'm currently browsing VintageTubeServices since that's apparently the secret to silent tubes. Trying to score a set of totally silent tubes as my reference point before i roll more from ebay

And now back (focusing on) the music.

Welcome to the club! It can be a bit challenging at first, but sounds like you are on the right track to getting your amp quieter.

I do have one driver tube to suggest for a more liquid smooth and a bit bloomier sound and it's the Brimar CV4034. https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles

Also, for power tubes you might look for some Mullard EL84 with a square getter and acid etched code RX1 from Blackburn. These are the most liquid smooth power tubes I have been able to find. I bet Andy of Vintage Tube Services might have a pair or even Brent Jesse (I don't use Brent due to my own past experiences with him trying to sell me tubes as something they were not, I know my tubes and the differences between a National Union Grey Glass and RCA Grey Glass 6SN7 and they are not the same tube internally and sonically , but others have had success with him and he has a return policy). Here are some that were recently sold on ebay just for reference. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Match...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

You can slow down and take a bit of the speed/bite down with the tubes above and add a bit a bloom, but this amp will never becomes slow or tubey.

Happy Hunting, Rolling, and Listening!

 

[Wes S]

So, I have a confession to make and looks like I have to eat my own words once again. . . I rolled out the Brimar CV491 driver tube the other day that I said I wasn't ever going to pull until it's dead, and rolled in the once very famous Footscray Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter 57'. The CV4033 is much more forward in the mids and especially vocals compared the the CV491 and it's actually the perfect tube for my VC. Yep, my Atticus are still riding the bench at the moment, and my VC's are absolutely stunning with the CV4033 in the Pendant.

The amp noise (hum) became slightly noticeable with the CV4033, but the sound is so insanely good that I don't care about a little bit of noise. Also, I can't hear the noise when the music is playing anyway. Eating my own words once again, with this one.

So after eating my words, I say don't fret if you can't get rid of all the noise. It's just the nature of the beast with some tubes, and if you are happy with the sound just keep enjoying it.

 

[jonathan c]

So, I have a confession to make and looks like I have to eat my own words once again. . . I rolled out the Brimar CV491 driver tube the other day that I said I wasn't ever going to pull until it's dead, and rolled in the once very famous Footscray Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Black Plate Square Getter 57'. The CV4033 is much more forward in the mids and especially vocals compared the the CV491 and it's actually the perfect tube for my VC. Yep, my Atticus are still riding the bench at the moment, and my VC's are absolutely stunning with the CV4033 in the Pendant.

The amp noise (hum) became slightly noticeable with the CV4033, but the sound is so insanely good that I don't care about a little bit of noise. Also, I can't hear the noise when the music is playing anyway. Eating my own words once again, with this one.

So after eating my words, I say don't fret if you can't get rid of all the noise. It's just the nature of the beast with some tubes, and if you are happy with the sound just keep enjoying it.

…be careful about eating your words…with your level of enthusiasm, your words are high in calories……long live tube rolling!

 

[Noodlz]

Welcome to the club! It can be a bit challenging at first, but sounds like you are on the right track to getting your amp quieter.

I do have one driver tube to suggest for a more liquid smooth and a bit bloomier sound and it's the Brimar CV4034. https://pulsetubestore.com/products...dplug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles

Also, for power tubes you might look for some Mullard EL84 with a square getter and acid etched code RX1 from Blackburn. These are the most liquid smooth power tubes I have been able to find. I bet Andy of Vintage Tube Services might have a pair or even Brent Jesse (I don't use Brent due to my own past experiences with him trying to sell me tubes as something they were not, I know my tubes and the differences between a National Union Grey Glass and RCA Grey Glass 6SN7 and they are not the same tube internally and sonically , but others have had success with him and he has a return policy). Here are some that were recently sold on ebay just for reference. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Match...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

You can slow down and take a bit of the speed/bite down with the tubes above and add a bit a bloom, but this amp will never becomes slow or tubey.

Happy Hunting, Rolling, and Listening!

awesome thanks! Will need to hunt down the rx1 mullard el84 tubes. Bought a bunch of things already so might need to wait Lol. Going down the tube rabbit hole can add up. Side note does anyone use the tube monger socket savers? Does it help with noise and also is it even necessary? I imagine I’d need to get 4. it may also look kinda ugly…