Zhaolu 2.0 ARRIVED!!! IMPRESSION INSIDE!
Jun 5, 2006 at 5:32 PM Post #406 of 858
Had some more time and did 2 RMAA measurings just for fun:

16bit 44khz:
http://www.aniston-park.com/z1/z1644.htm

32bit 96khz (24bit mode wont work on my card)
http://www.aniston-park.com/z2/z3296.htm

!!!!!!WARNING!!!!! !!!!!!WARNING!!!!! !!!!!!WARNING!!!!!

These mean absolutely NOTHING, the aureon sky line in is crappy!
I think my card is defective anyway because it has some very strange
measurements going from line out -> line in directly too.
Also soundstage on speakers is way way off, on headphones its
only hardly noticable.


Measurements of this kind should be done with a very
high quality card... but i was bored...
biggrin.gif
 
Jun 5, 2006 at 5:33 PM Post #407 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori
Definitely do that, but be aware that you will also lose the preamp function (i.e. volume controlled RCA outputs).
Open the case (8 screws) and pull all the cables going to the headphone amp. Use a tape or just about anything to tie them together, so they don't wander around inside...
Look at the opamps installed in your unit. Those are the little black thingies with 4 metal pins on each side in my pic. If these are the LT1057, then you must replace them with OPA2604 or any of the "proven" opamps, an operation that takes a few seconds with a screwdriver or small pliers.



What is the recommended opamp config for the CS DAC?
2604's with 627?
 
Jun 5, 2006 at 7:41 PM Post #408 of 858
I tried a couple of op-amp swaps - the LM6172 and the AD8620.

The LM6172 was a dissapointment in the Zhaolu (I've had good results with it before). Swapping all three op-amps, it sounded like there was rise in the treble of several db, which made me want to turn the volume down (never a good sign). Putting back the DY2000 helped a little, but to my ears, it wasn't happening.

The AD8620 was better than the original combo (LT1057/DY2000). The bass improved noticeably (better frequency extension). There was more high frequency detail (shimmer on cymbal strikes, increased locational cues of instruments) without any additional glare. I found myself turning up with volume. Swapping the DY2000 back in seemed to reduce the improvements so I went back to 3 x AD8620.

I also have the AD8066, but have not tried it yet. I also have not tried the 2604's.

NOTE: I reduced the voltage as low as I could for the AD8620 with the two potentiometers. I got it down to +/- 12.4V.

I have the D2 with the CS4398. No other mods (yet).
 
Jun 5, 2006 at 11:53 PM Post #409 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhiggins
I tried a couple of op-amp swaps - the LM6172 and the AD8620.

The LM6172 was a dissapointment in the Zhaolu (I've had good results with it before). Swapping all three op-amps, it sounded like there was rise in the treble of several db, which made me want to turn the volume down (never a good sign). Putting back the DY2000 helped a little, but to my ears, it wasn't happening.

The AD8620 was better than the original combo (LT1057/DY2000). The bass improved noticeably (better frequency extension). There was more high frequency detail (shimmer on cymbal strikes, increased locational cues of instruments) without any additional glare. I found myself turning up with volume. Swapping the DY2000 back in seemed to reduce the improvements so I went back to 3 x AD8620.

I also have the AD8066, but have not tried it yet. I also have not tried the 2604's.

NOTE: I reduced the voltage as low as I could for the AD8620 with the two potentiometers. I got it down to +/- 12.4V.

I have the D2 with the CS4398. No other mods (yet).




OK have patience with me please! I've been an audiophile for decades, but I'm completely new to audio DIY. I'm fixing to order the D2 w/CS4398. I understand the op-amp switch, but how do you reduce the voltage and what purpose does that serve? Are the pots the kind where you stick a screw driver in the slot and adjust them? I'm very interested in the mods for this DAC!
Thanks, Steve
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 12:48 AM Post #410 of 858
OK, got off work early today and Ori came over and we did a massive all-Zhaolu shootout. Here was the gear:

1. My Zhaolu 1.3, PSU upgraded, headamp disconnected.

2. My Zhaolu 2.0, CS Dac, upgraded Blackgates from Eddie, headamp disconnected.

3. Ori's Zhaolu 2.0, AD Dac, upgraded Blackgates from Eddie, headamp disconnected, XLR's disconnected via resistor mod (see prior post/pic in this thread from Ori), DC blocking caps removed (also see prior post/pic from Ori), coax switch soldered into on position (front panel lights unplugged, permanently in coax input mode, also see prior Ori post regarding this mod).

4. Ori's Zhaolu 1.3 with opamps removed and Ori's own discrete output stage installed.

Opamps were the same in all units: opa2604 in lateral positions and DY2000 in the center. Power cord was the same, Signal Cable Digital AC. Coaxial cable was the Oritek X-1. We were able to easily swap CS and AD Dac modules between the 2.0 units as well when we needed to. We used my Squeezebox 2 as a source, and my speaker rig.

Here are several of our impressions, prefaced by the fact that although we agreed for the most part, YMMV and these are our personal impressions only:

Briefly, we agreed that Ori's modded 2.0 had better treble detail and extension when compared with my unmodded 2.0, using the same Dac module (the CS dac for this comparison). We concluded that clipping the XLR resistors, removing/bridging the DC blocking caps, disconnecting the front panel lights/switches, and bridging the coax switch to permanently "on" was a worthwhile set of mods based on our listening. We previously determined that coax is quite superior to optical, and so permanently deactivating the optical input didn't seem like much of a price to pay for better sound.

Moving on, we then compared Ori's modded 2.0 with the AD dac to my Zhaolu 1.3. Very interestingly, they sounded nearly identical...we had a very hard time telling them apart, whereas we could easily tell the modded 2.0 from the unmodded 2.0 when they were using the same DAC chip. So our conclusion was that, after the modifications, the 2.0 closely matched the 1.3 when all else was equal (AD chipset, opamps).

We now compared the AD to CS Dac chipsets. Where we agreed: they sound quite different, with AD having greater treble extension and "openess" but CS having a smoother sound overall and (I felt) greater warmth/bass presence. Where we slightly disagreed was which we preferred: I gave the edge to the CS as being less fatiguing and smoother/warmer; Ori preferred the detail and extension/openess of the AD. We concluded that perhaps which DAC one chooses will depend on personal preference and system syngery for this reason. Perhaps solid state may mate better with the CS for example; again, YMMV.

Finally, we listened to Ori's discrete-output-modded 1.3. This was the clear winner overall. Better treble extension and detail, tighter bass, even more well defined soundstage. But we agreed that the other units sounded damn fine; this mod just took it another level up from an already high starting point in terms of musicality and sound quality.

So we had a good time and generally concluded that the Zhaolu 2.0, when modded, sounds at least as good as the 1.3 and allows for rolling of DAC chips. The choice of DAC module should be based on personal preference/ auditioning if possible.

I quickly performed surgery on my 2.0 with CS dac, and did all of Ori's mods: the result--> a fine sounding dac. If I can do these, anyone can.

One last note for squeezebox owners: we compared the squeezebox as a transport to my Panasonic DVDS47, and we were amazed by how much better the squeezebox sounded! Compared to the Panasonic at least, the squeezebox is a fantastic transport.
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 1:06 AM Post #411 of 858
Nice zdogg

Wish i could have been there
cool.gif
My 2.0 should be in soon.Eddie put some japanese resistors in my unit with a special mod.He said it gave the dac better Clarity .I may call ori later and talk some about the discrete output stage mod.
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 2:05 AM Post #413 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by gevorg
zdogg,

Can you post pics of internals after the mods?



Ugh, I would but I'll have to crack open my dac again and unscrew and remove the board...maybe later, I've done too much today and the wife is yelling
blink.gif
Take a look at the earlier post in this thread where Ori took pictures of the top of the board. It should look like that, although instead of removing the caps you can solder a piece of wire across the terminals on the bottom of the board if you don't want to remove the caps entirely. For the coax bridge, Ori may be able to better describe or perhaps he has pictures of the back of the board.
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 2:06 AM Post #414 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerWilco
Nice zdogg

Wish i could have been there
cool.gif
My 2.0 should be in soon.Eddie put some japanese resistors in my unit with a special mod.He said it gave the dac better Clarity .I may call ori later and talk some about the discrete output stage mod.



Very cool, let us know how it sounds
icon10.gif
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 3:43 AM Post #415 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61
OK have patience with me please! I've been an audiophile for decades, but I'm completely new to audio DIY. I'm fixing to order the D2 w/CS4398. I understand the op-amp switch, but how do you reduce the voltage and what purpose does that serve? Are the pots the kind where you stick a screw driver in the slot and adjust them? I'm very interested in the mods for this DAC!
Thanks, Steve



Reducing the voltage is required for certain op-amps, such as the AD8620 and the AD8066, because they support a maximum supply voltage of about +/-13.5V. My Zhaolu came with the voltages set at +/-15.5V, hence the need for the adjustment. As for the two pots, you have it exactly right - there's a small brass screw head on top of a blue plastic case that you turn one way or the other to increase or decrease the voltage. A multimeter is required to perform the voltage measurement. Most other commonly used op-amps will not require that the voltages be reduced.
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 6:31 AM Post #416 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhiggins
Reducing the voltage is required for certain op-amps, such as the AD8620 and the AD8066, because they support a maximum supply voltage of about +/-13.5V. My Zhaolu came with the voltages set at +/-15.5V, hence the need for the adjustment. As for the two pots, you have it exactly right - there's a small brass screw head on top of a blue plastic case that you turn one way or the other to increase or decrease the voltage. A multimeter is required to perform the voltage measurement. Most other commonly used op-amps will not require that the voltages be reduced.


Correct me if I'm wrong. The 8620 (dual) can do 26V max from single power supply. Also 8066 is 24V max. So 15.5V is no problem.
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 6:46 AM Post #417 of 858
the 15.5V, i think is the +/- 15.5V, which is total up 31V across the opamp
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 6:47 AM Post #418 of 858
zdogg,

I'm trying to decide adding a DY2000 on middle section to my Dac1.3 and Dac2.0 coming soon.
I've been using all 2604's in my current modded 1.3. Whats the sound like between the 2604's and DY2000 in middle sections on both 1.3&2.0.
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 12:08 PM Post #419 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhiggins
Reducing the voltage is required for certain op-amps, such as the AD8620 and the AD8066, because they support a maximum supply voltage of about +/-13.5V. My Zhaolu came with the voltages set at +/-15.5V, hence the need for the adjustment. As for the two pots, you have it exactly right - there's a small brass screw head on top of a blue plastic case that you turn one way or the other to increase or decrease the voltage. A multimeter is required to perform the voltage measurement. Most other commonly used op-amps will not require that the voltages be reduced.


Very nice explanation bhiggins. Even a newb like me could understand it. I appreciate your reply, thank you.
 
Jun 6, 2006 at 1:35 PM Post #420 of 858
Quote:

Originally Posted by ODG
Whats the sound like between the 2604's and DY2000 in middle sections on both 1.3&2.0.


Since I heard them both and we just about agreed on this, I can tell you that the DY2000 had a much more refined sound.
At this level, almost any combination would sound credible on its own, so "improvements" are quite subtle. The OPA2604 had more 'edgy' sound, without any sonic benefit. The DY2000 didn't lose a level of detail or increase the perceived noise floor. It just sounded more natural and just as extended and dynamic as the OPA2604.
There might be other suitable opamps for this position, but between these two there was very little doubt that the DY2000 is a winner.
 

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