[jnev]

my zen micro was stolen from me a few days ago (the thread is still on this page), and chances of me getting it back are looking bleak. therefore, i need a new player. when i got my micro, i thought that i'd like something really small, but turns out i don't really need it. as long as it confortable fits in my pockets (no strange-looking "lumps" anywhere ), i'll be fine with it. i'm trying to pick between the zen touch and the karma. the h320 is nice, but i don't need line-in/out (i thought i would, but i really don't), or a color screeen. plus, it's more expensive, and my funds are limited. the touch and the karma both seem like nice players, but each has something i like. the karma has (supposed, i've never heard it before) sq and a line-out (if the need for an amp ever should arrise, i highly doubt it though), but the touch seems to have better navigation and a better shape to carry in my pockets. (the karma is a wierd shape, and it's nav stick doesn't help). also, i've read that the firmware it uses isn't crappy like my micro's was, so i'll be able to use the explorer that comes with it to make playlists, something that was imposible for me with my micro. i've played with my friends touch and it seems really nice. the karma's failure rate is really scaring me. i have no use for extra features like a radio or voice-recorder. although the karma is considerably cheaper, i have no problems ponying up the money for the touch if it indeed is better.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnev my zen micro was stolen from me a few days ago (the thread is still on this page), and chances of me getting it back are looking bleak. therefore, i need a new player. when i got my micro, i thought that i'd like something really small, but turns out i don't really need it. as long as it confortable fits in my pockets (no strange-looking "lumps" anywhere ), i'll be fine with it. i'm trying to pick between the zen touch and the karma. the h320 is nice, but i don't need line-in/out (i thought i would, but i really don't), or a color screeen. plus, it's more expensive, and my funds are limited. the touch and the karma both seem like nice players, but each has something i like. the karma has (supposed, i've never heard it before) sq and a line-out (if the need for an amp ever should arrise, i highly doubt it though), but the touch seems to have better navigation and a better shape to carry in my pockets. (the karma is a wierd shape, and it's nav stick doesn't help). also, i've read that the firmware it uses isn't crappy like my micro's was, so i'll be able to use the explorer that comes with it to make playlists, something that was imposible for me with my micro. i've played with my friends touch and it seems really nice. the karma's failure rate is really scaring me. i have no use for extra features like a radio or voice-recorder. although the karma is considerably cheaper, i have no problems ponying up the money for the touch if it indeed is better.

The nav stick doesn't impede pocketability. It's recessed, such that it doesn't stick out further than the face of the player.

The player is, however, quite thick.

The Karma has fantastic navigation.

Personally, I find the Touch to look gigantic compared to the Karma, I don't know why. Probably it pockets better, though.

 

[jnev]

that's good to know about the nav stick, thanks. like i said, i haven't ever seen or used the player, so i don't know much about it.

 

[Cyclone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnev (no strange-looking "lumps" anywhere )

Both are probably the biggest "new" players out right now. the karma lump will be thicker but not as much surface area, the touch will be heavier less thick (still not thin) and have more surface area. pick your lump i guess

.

 

[Zappa74]

These were the two players that I considered most. I really liked the iriver 320 too, but couldnt justify the extra $70 or so price increase.

I went with the karma for a few reasons.

-Ogg support (this was the biggie)
-much better software
-slightly nicer interface
-only paid $174 for a new unit

If the Zen supported ogg, I probably would have bought it. Better reliability record so far and a longer battery life (though the Karma's battery is fine).

However, I really valued the Rio's ogg support and I've grown to love the gapless play. The user interface is the best I've ever used and Rio's software is pleasantly unobtrusive. The size of the unit is nice.. thick, but not to where I cant have it in my pocket comfortably.

As for Rio's track record- I have faith in the player. It came with the latest firmware already on it (dont know if that matters) and there are many users who have had their Karma's for a long while without it crapping out. I picked up an extended warranty just incase.

 

[scorpian007]

A vote for the Zen Touch. It's a great player, the sound quality is excellent, the EQ is great if you know how to tweak it. Navigation is similar to the Micro's (not quite as easy but almost) and the size isn't that big. It looks big in images but in real life it's not that large. It fit in my jeans pockets quite easily without showing any odd lumps

And lastly, the player was very reliable and durable for me. It froze 3 times the first day I got it but after that it was flawless. I've also dropped it on concrete from about 2 metres high by accident and it kept on chugging.

 

[Girdag]

+1 vote for Karma. Great sound through the headphone-out, a good dock included with true line-out, a truly brilliant UI and the best equaliser found on an MP3 player. Also, gapless playback.

Quote:

the karma's failure rate is really scaring me

It isn't that high any more. Certainly not significantly higher than any other player.

 

[UserNotFound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian007 A vote for the Zen Touch. It's a great player, the sound quality is excellent, the EQ is great if you know how to tweak it. Navigation is similar to the Micro's (not quite as easy but almost) and the size isn't that big. It looks big in images but in real life it's not that large. It fit in my jeans pockets quite easily without showing any odd lumps And lastly, the player was very reliable and durable for me. It froze 3 times the first day I got it but after that it was flawless. I've also dropped it on concrete from about 2 metres high by accident and it kept on chugging.

i've dropped my zen touch about 6 feet out of bed onto tile floor, barely even a mark on it.

As for size, it's maybe 5% bigger than my wallet, and i can cary it in any pocket. Because of the dedicated buttons, you can hit next/pause/rewind/volume while it's in your pocket simply by pushing the buttons THROUGH your jeans or jacket pocket. I think that's the one thing i absolutely love about it.

 

[jnev]

thanks for all the suggestions. one question: what exactly is ogg? i know it's a type of format, but what makes it so much better than mp3, wav, or wma?

i think i'm leaning to getting the karma now...

thanks for everyone's help, keep it coming!

 

[Girdag]

OGG generally produces better sounding files than mp3, wma (or aac for that matter) for the same filesize. One note - it does reduce the battery life of your Karma playing ogg, but only by an hour or 2 (I get 14 hours battery with my all-ogg library).

 

[nickd75]

I think you should have a hands on demo of the Karma - it is great, and the feature set is fantastic, but there are some drawbacks. The build quality, while not bad, is not great, and they have a tendency to break. The joystick gets jammed and so on - they really are a bit plasticky. The Zen Touch, on t'other hand, appears (to me, as a Karma user) to be more minimalist, a la ipod, which I think is a good thing.

And, if it makes any difference, I am a reasonably happy Karma user, but I'm thinking of replacing it, partly cause of the build and partly cause it is a bit brick-like. Plus I'm hoping to be an ecstatic owner of something else, possibly a Sony NWHD3 or a Cowon M3
Nick

 

[jnev]

14+ hours of battery life is more than enough for me. my micro was getting 7-8 hours and i had no problems with that. i'm not very hard on my stuff, so hopefully either will last for me...

 

[M-317]

is that a zen touch in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?


anyway, i don't recommend a zen touch if you listen to radiohead obsessivley, because for some reason it doesn't like radiohead, but apart from that i like mine.

 

[combustion]

my last player was a zen touch, couldnt stand the touch interface and got sick and tired of having to lock and unlcok everytime it went in my pocket (took it back).. I was thinking of getting the karma but after seeing how limited the supply was near me I said forget it and got the sony hd3 instead.. boy am I glad... I love it!

 

[jnev]

what's radiohead?