[vranswer]

My wife once told me she can't 'unhear' the echo in our living room, although she'd very much wish she could. One night she noticed that the room echos voices/conversations...it's just something you could go years and not notice, until one night and one conversation or even word spoken. Problem is once you do notice it, your hear it forever. She often complains it drives her crazy now.

What does this have to do with Headfi? As thread title states, I'm re-ordering the E5s, because for similar reasons I can't seem go back to the ER4s much anymore. I've heard the sibilance, AND I CAN'T 'UNHEAR' IT. My sequence of phones purchase was: Koss Plugs, Shure E2, E5, Ety ER4, Shure E3, and Westone UM2. My reaction sequence was: used Plugs happily for years, found Headfi, bought E2s, returned because they weren't that much better, bought E5s, liked a lot, bought ER4s ('cause have always been a treble head), found epiphany-like love - thought nirvana would be a step down, bought E3s, got tired of them quickly, bought UM2s, BAMMM!!

The Westones threw me a curve by being 'musical' as so many like to say, and taking the edge off the teble (but still keeping it alive and present). Now I hear this sibilance, this trebly/grainy tonality with the Etys. Struck me more when I popped some Senn MX300s into the ears, and the Apple buds. 'SSSSStop' ....., or 'ssshhhhhurely now' vocalists rage. Plus the general timbre of voices is gratingly grainy. And I repeat, I simply can't Unhear it. My brain has identified it, categorized it for instant recall, and recognizes it - no, even magnifies it when exposed to it.

Sorry, enough rant. Anyway, the E5s are on their way. Anybody interested in a pair of Etys?

 

[mbk]

Wait, I don't get it. You're hearing the sibilance from the ER4s, but what about the Westones? What're you looking for in the E5 that you're not getting from the UM2?

 

[EdipisReks]

i'll take your etys, i'll even pay shipping

.. i hope i never hear sibilance, and i completely understand the sentiment of "once you hear it, you can't unhear it". i'm the same way with just about everything. once i see/feel/hear a flaw in anything i own that i value it goes from being nonexistant to quite bothersome, at least for a while.

 

[iamdone]

What opamp are using the the supermacro? Just popping in the opa627 should fix it. The etys can be too bright and harsh with the ad8610. If you are already using the opa627, then your ears might be more sensitive.

 

[lindrone]

I agree... same reason why I can't stand UE-10 Pro and ER-4.

 

[hawkfire]

hello,

This is what I was trying to describe earlier in another thread when I refer to forced highs in regards to canalphones.

I wholeheartedly with vranswer.

Once your ears attune themselves to sibilance, one can no longer ignore its presence no matter how hard one tries as it is always present in sound.

IMO, that is the reason why Shure rolled off the highs in the passive crossover circuit for the E5 for its original intended use as a live performance IEM.

The Westones dont have this and as a result, percieved highs are supposedly better in detail.

To me unamped, the westone UM2 highs are shrill and transparent in comparison to the E5.

Amping with a Supermacro or especially the samuels sr71 does the westone um2 a world of good.

But thats my opinion on the matter.

Iamdone,

I dunno about your response.

Xins products have always been optimized for use with ETY products as he is a great fan of the ETY line.

And to be honest, because of the passive crossover circuit, The Shures dont really benefit much amped in comarison to the westone um2.

Certaion parties here have always been of the opinion that I was bsing them about the ety sound.

I am glad there are others that have come forward and shared similar opinions to my own.

 

[king896]

Hum what I don't get is that for them money you can sell your Ety's and Westone for and the money you spent on the Shure E5's you could have gone the whole way and gotten a IEM like the Sensaphonic which I know for a fact do not have the Sibilance that plague everything else (I have tried all of the IEM I could get my hand on over 3 years) But if your happy with the E5's then all the power to you.... I guess some of us are just able to save money in this dog on hobby I know I can't

 

[catscratch]

If you're using your portable amped, consider the Star SR-001 as well. It most certeinly doesn't have the problem that you refer to. The Stax has a closer sound signature to the E5 rather than the ER-4, but improves on it with better resolution, soundstaging, and detail. Their biggest downside is the need for an amp, but if you're using an amped portable anyway, you might consider it. And, from www.audiocubes.com the Stax only costs $239, though will need to spend some money on peripherals and interconnects.

 

[hawkfire]

hello,

Well it would depend on what vranswer intends to use these for.

In all honesty, the prophonics I have owned since late 03 I wont take out on the road or use with portables on the go simply bacause of the cost of the prophonics.

I would much rather use the E5 on the road.

The stax does indeed suffer from the sibilance factor.

All sound reproduction does to a varied degree.

Honestly, IMO the stax has more of an inbetween sound between the E5 and ER4S, but the stax leans more toward the ety highs than it does to the shure sound.

Its that particular sound that vranswer is trying to avoid I think.

 

[bLue_oNioN]

VR - Do you pair the UM-2 with the SR-71 or SM? Have you had experiences with both?

 

[hawkfire]

hello,

bLue_oNioN,

I have no idea if vranswer does or doesnt have an sr71.

Just following the thread and the info provided in it.

 

[catscratch]

Hawk... you're referring to the 001, right? I really can't say that I agree that it suffers from sibilance at all. The 001 rolls off the treble quite noticeably under battery power, and less so under AC power, but there isn't even a hint of sibilance in either case. I also have the ER-4P, and yes I do notice that there is quite a bit of treble sibilance, but that doesn't bother me as I usually don't listen to the type of music (rock, pop) where sibilance in the vocals especially will be bothersome. What irritates me on the ER-4 is it's exaggeration of upper-frequency harmonics, which makes some instruments sound bright and unnatural in the treble. Piano classical music is what I usually listen to the most, since I was a piano player myself for 14 years or so, and, well, the ER-4P simply doesn't produce a natural piano sound. Neither does the 001 for that matter

but it has the opposite problem - it attenuates the treble and upper frequency harmonics, and pianos seem to sound warm and a little ethereal, and lack the sparkle in the high range - but the sound is more natural than the ER-4.

If he wants the exact opposite sound signature, while preserving the detail of the ER-4, I think 001 is just the ticket. The biggest reason not to use the 001 is it's need for an amp, but if that's not an issue (it became one for me), then you're not going to find a better solution short of the UE10 Pro or 2X-S.

Of course YMMV.

 

[vranswer]

Interesting responses. I really believe now that I've crossed the 'sibilance bridge' there's no going back. It has implications for all my gear, albeit mostly the phones.

MBK: It would be more accurate to ask what I'm NOT seeking in the E5s. Grainy, scratchy, brain-rattling sibilance. Vocals that rub you the wrong way, venomous 'SSSSS's sung seemingly by SSSSnakes. Even the UM2s have begun to radiate the rraw.

ER: (not a coincidence, your initials, eh?) You may yet get my Etys to add to your stable.

iamdone: I use Xin SM with opa627. It's not the amp IMO.

king896: I have no interest in custom IEMs. I buy and sell too much. I like putting them in and out often. I have trouble with the idea of buying something so expensive that I'd feel guilty greasing them down in my ears, or walking around with them.

bLue_oNioN: My UM2s are powered by my SM, don't have the SR71 anymore. It will be critical to compare the Westones to the Shures when they arrive.

 

[james__bean]

I've actually noticed a little bit of sibilance on the UM2 at loud volumes. Then again, I'm running unamped off a crappy portable cd player headphone out. I can hear audible hiss during the silent parts of songs so I really can't rule out my source. For me, the only time that the sibilance has been an issue is when listening to poorly recorded albums. Red Hot Chilli Peppers comes to mind.

 

[dura]

I see the point in the poetic 'can't unhear'.
However, I often find the 'stick with the devil you know' saying equally thrue. Try another phone, be happy for a while, then suddenly you find a fault that keeps on hindering you, go back to the first phone and yuo might discover it's faults are actually milder. Then start over again...these neurotic tendenses most of us share to some degree are between the ears, not on or in it.

About the livingroom..something like a carpet or curtains or so usually reduce echo's.