[otherlives]

since its 'help a noob decide on heaphones v.18743298742937424.4"   
 
 
I have been researching these damn things for about 20 straight hours now, went and listened to some, and its time to ask some questions and then buy something.  So bear with me.  I will try to lay this thread out as logical as possible.
 
 
I listen to a broad range of things, mostly indie music of one genre or another.  TBH I have no idea what the hell the sub-categories of this music even means half the time, so I'd prefer not to list any of it.  I will listen to everything from hip-hop to rock to electronic, but nothing too heavy in any direction.  Some examples would be: The Weeknd, Outkast, Sbtrkt, Frank Ocean, Doom, JJn2, LCD Soundsystem, stuff like that.  But 70% of my listening is indie rock, such as:  Beach House, The Antlers, Arcade Fire, Local Natives, MGMT, Vampire Weekend.  Hope this gives an idea.
 
 
It would be great to stay between 150-250 for these headphones.  I will buy used or new.  My objective is comfortable, circumaural headphones I can wear for 6 hrs at a time during the day.  They will be used for music only. 
 
 
Here is what I have heard recently, and my thoughts:
 
HD650; powered by a E11 from an ipod, v0, probably vbr or 320kbs:  These were the best things I heard by far.  I heard these first, then the other ones a day later.  It convinced me I want open back headphones (after hearing the options below and how expansive the soundstage of these were in comparison).  Obviously they should be, as they are the most expensive.  They were fairly full, and I didnt think they were lacking bass at all.  I thought they could have been a little more open, and I would have appreciated a little more transparency.  I assume some of this would have come from a better amp.  The soundstage was impressive to me, as I had never heard this nice of a headphone.  That being said I got used to it pretty quickly and started picking out issues.  I am not sure I would have been so impressed with the soundstage after a week of listening.  Maybe I would be, but thats sorta my hunch.  Overall I am very impressed though.  
 
DT770 Pros (I assume 80's); unpowered, from a iMac, lossless; I didnt really like these.  They sounded incredible when I put on MSTRKRFT and Crystal Castles, but the mids were really muddy.  Tom Petty's vocals sounded horrible.  I can see why people that listen to electronic and really like bass love these things.  I can only imagine its even stronger when properly powered.  I could never imagine owning these.
 
HD328's; same as above: Meh.  I tried them after the DT770's and I dont remember thinking anything good or bad about them verses the DT770's.  I was unimpressed.  If someone put a gun to my head I would have taken the DT770's just because at least they excelled at one type of sound.  I wouldn't buy these.
 
ATH-M50; same as above:  Not bad   Better than the DT770's.  I thought that the mids were much more responsive and lively.  However the soundstage was unimpressive.  I remember the bass was fine, the mids were ok, and the highs were ok, but everything in between was muddy or opaque, I'm not sure which.  Its like they accentuated 3 parts of the EQ and left the rest to die.  I can see why people like these for the money, especially if they arent very discerning.  They certainly sounded ok.
 
 
 
So I know I most likely cannot get a pair of headphones that is good for *all* the music I listen to, but I would like them to be ok at least.  I would also like them to display a soundstage and signature that I prefer, even though I am not 100% sure that that is, I think I have a good idea and hopefully the info above gives a decent idea.  I am currently leaning towards a K/Q/701.  I *think* I am looking for something like the HD650's that might be a little less forward and possibly more transparent, and they sound like the fit the bill.  I have also read good things about the AD900's/700's and the DT880's, but I am worried about them being too much like the 770's.  I think the HD600's and 650's are out of my price range.  My worry with the K701's is that they wont keep up with the music I listen to.  It seems a lot of people that love them listen to classical music.  Theres a ton of debate around here regarding tech stuff, but very little cemented in the type of music you listen to.  Sorta perplexing to me.  I will power these with something adequate... probably a M Stage/matrix cube or something similar at my desk.  I cant find a reasonably priced dac+amp that seems sufficient to power the headphones I am looking at that will hook to my ipod, so maybe just an E11 for that?  I am not sure.  I am also open to recommendations of headphones not recommended in this paragraph.
 
 
 
 
 
TLDR:  Read what music I like and recommend me a pair of headphones that is a little more open and transparent than the HD650's.

 

[notmuchcash]

Does your 150-250 dollar budget include an amplifier? (Possible future purchase)
 
It sounds like you want to eventually go with an amp. If that isn't the case, then I urge you to take a good hard look at Grados. My 225s are pretty awesome with the sort of indie you listed, and I can appreciate the sound signature even with rap music. Probably the best choice in your price range as far as easy to drive cans go. 

 

[otherlives]

No, I will buy an amp within a week of buying the cans, separately,   I guess I should have posted a condensed version of this in the recommendation thread.  Somehow I missed it.
 
Arent the grado's a little bit hot?  Really overpowering upper mids and highs annoy me.  I mentioned I would like the DT880's but the more I read the less I like.  What about the HD600's?  I might be able to find a used pair in my budget.

 

[cel4145]

Check out the A900X. I think it's a pretty good all around phone as long as you don't need portability. It has a little bit of bass emphasis, but I don't feel as much as the M50s.  Here's a review. 

 

[paradoxper]

If not the 650's, then shoot for the HD600's. 

 

[billybob_jcv]

Your mistake is thinking you need to find the perfect headphone to purchase - as if you will only buy one pair. The reality is that once you go down the head-fi road, you will not stop with one pair - this will simply be the first of many. So, stop thinking of this as the *last* 'phones you will buy - it is simply the *next* phones you will buy. Once you accept that it takes a lot of the pressure off - and you can just buy the pair that seems to be the most interesting to you at this time.

Sorry about your wallet...

 

[Chawanwit]

Have you considered the he-400?

 

[otherlives]

Quote:

If not the 650's, then shoot for the HD600's. 

 
It seems like the 600's are harder to find and the 650 is hardly carrying a price premium.  I think I basically would like a HD650 with slightly less bass or slightly more mid range.  Could the lack of mid range punch I heard be because it was only powered by a E11?  Will I have to spend a ton to get an amp that brings out the mid range more?
 
Quote:

Your mistake is thinking you need to find the perfect headphone to purchase - as if you will only buy one pair. The reality is that once you go down the head-fi road, you will not stop with one pair - this will simply be the first of many. So, stop thinking of this as the *last* 'phones you will buy - it is simply the *next* phones you will buy. Once you accept that it takes a lot of the pressure off - and you can just buy the pair that seems to be the most interesting to you at this time.
Sorry about your wallet...

Haha, well I did say that in my OP I realized this would be the issue.  That being said I would like my foray into open ear headphones to cover a lot of bases, then I can specialize from there.
 
Quote:

Have you considered the he-400?

Arent those out of my price range?

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

 
It seems like the 600's are harder to find and the 650 is hardly carrying a price premium.  I think I basically would like a HD650 with slightly less bass or slightly more mid range.  Could the lack of mid range punch be because it was only powered by a E11?  Will I have to spend a ton to get an amp that brings out the mid range more?
 
Haha, well I did say that in my OP I realized this would be the issue.  That being said I would like my foray into open ear headphones to cover a lot of bases, then I can specialize from there.
 
Arent those out of my price range?

Then you'd want the 600's, IMO. The HD650's are pretty darn good though. They have that mid-bass hump. As far as not having enough mid range,
I can't speak from experience from driving them from a portable amp, or something that may not be ideal. I never felt the mid range suffered
while driving it off the Lyr. I would imagine however, the E11 would bottleneck the headphone. It's capable of scaling very quickly.
 
 
IF you could stretch that budget: The HE-500 or Mad Dog are the better options out there, they do require a headamp though.
 
IMO, the HE-400 while good and priced nicely, the HD650 just edges it out. Purely preference though.
The HE-400 may just fit your taste more.

 

[mikek200]

A big +1 on the Maddogs...
 
Also,might want to check out the B/S forum ,for a used Lyr.?

 

[cel4145]

Refurbished HD650s for $300 just listed on the deals thread. Factory refurbished. Might not last too long at that price. 

 

[otherlives]

Quote:

Then you'd want the 600's, IMO. The HD650's are pretty darn good though. They have that mid-bass hump. As far as not having enough mid range,
I can't speak from experience from driving them from a portable amp, or something that may not be ideal. I never felt the mid range suffered
while driving it off the Lyr. I would imagine however, the E11 would bottleneck the headphone. It's capable of scaling very quickly.
 
 
IF you could stretch that budget: The HE-500 or Mad Dog are the better options out there, they do require a headamp though.
 
IMO, the HE-400 while good and priced nicely, the HD650 just edges it out. Purely preference though.
The HE-400 may just fit your taste more.

 
These are the Maddogs, correct?  http://www.mrspeakers.com/Audiophile-fostex-t50rp-upgrades-mrspeakers-mad-dog/MrSpeakers-Mad-Dog-Headphone-with-Comfort-Strap
 
Not a lot of easy to find info on them.  How do they compare to the 650's?
 
The 650's I can get for 300ish.  I am sorta willing to stretch my budget to that, but not to the 400 I see the HE-400's for.  Is the street price cheaper and I am just not seeing it?
 
 
 
I'd like to have a desk amp (think, something in the 300-400 dollar range), and a *semi* portable amp, aka, something cheaper with a DAC built in that I can carry with me on days I just have the laptop and am in between offices, or when I want to read on the couch, (so it will be something wired, in the 120-150 dollar range).  I'd like whatever headphones I buy to sound decent from either of these sources, although I fully expect them to sound better from the larger, better amp.
 
Quote:

Refurbished HD650s for $300 just listed on the deals thread. Factory refurbished. Might not last too long at that price. 
 

 
What do you think is better, refurb or used?  That is a pretty good deal, basically less than used ones are going for.

 

[Bee inthe Attic]

Quote:

Your mistake is thinking you need to find the perfect headphone to purchase - as if you will only buy one pair. The reality is that once you go down the head-fi road, you will not stop with one pair - this will simply be the first of many. So, stop thinking of this as the *last* 'phones you will buy - it is simply the *next* phones you will buy. Once you accept that it takes a lot of the pressure off - and you can just buy the pair that seems to be the most interesting to you at this time.
Sorry about your wallet...

I agree that one would need a few headphones to satisfy listening to all genres.  I would suggest you start will a good all-rounder that works well with what you listen to most, and then look into future purchases to satisfy other needs (once you know what you are missing with your current setup).
 
For me, the HD 600 fits this perfectly. It is a great all-rounder, is extremely comfortable (once you stretch the headband a bit to reduce clamp), is pretty forgiving with different bitrates, and sounds fantastic. It's sound signature leans toward neutral, so make sure that is something that you would like. The only genre I really don't like them with is hip-hop. They are too airy and lack the bass needed for hard hitting tracks. I use mine strictly for home use, and they sound pretty good out of a budget amp like the Fiio E9. I've never tried the HD650, so I can't compare the two.
 
While the Grado SR225i's are real fun with rock and punk, they are pretty uncomfortable for long listening, and their forward mids become fatiguing to me after a while. I like them a lot, but only to use as a compliment to my other cans. The Beyer DT770 Pro's are good headphones, but the mids are pretty recessed. I would only recommend these if you need closed cans. If not, look elsewhere. The M50's sounded fine, but nothing special to me. Also their earcups were too small and got sweaty quickly; I did not find these comfortable.
 
Another suggestion for an all-rounder would be the Denon D2000/5000 (if you don't mind getting a discontinued headphone). These sound amazing, are easy to drive, and have great bass that works real well with hip-hop. While they would sound fine unamped, I would only use these for home use, as they seem somewhat fragile. Others to consider, which I have not listened to but read a lot about, are the HE-400 and Mad Dogs. Since you're listed budget is $150-250, you'd have to buy used for the ones I recommended - look at the for sale forum on here. Have fun.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

These are the Maddogs, correct?  http://www.mrspeakers.com/Audiophile-fostex-t50rp-upgrades-mrspeakers-mad-dog/MrSpeakers-Mad-Dog-Headphone-with-Comfort-Strap
 
Not a lot of easy to find info on them.  How do they compare to the 650's?
 
The 650's I can get for 300ish.  I am sorta willing to stretch my budget to that, but not to the 400 I see the HE-400's for.  Is the street price cheaper and I am just not seeing it?
 
 
 
I'd like to have a desk amp (think, something in the 300-400 dollar range), and a *semi* portable amp, aka, something cheaper with a DAC built in that I can carry with me on days I just have the laptop and am in between offices, or when I want to read on the couch, (so it will be something wired, in the 120-150 dollar range).  I'd like whatever headphones I buy to sound decent from either of these sources, although I fully expect them to sound better from the larger, better amp.
 
 
What do you think is better, refurb or used?  That is a pretty good deal, basically less than used ones are going for.

Yep. Those are them. 
 
Also info, impressions, updates. 
 
The Mad Dogs are similiar-ish. Somewhat dark. But the Mad Dogs are pretty linear, overall they are fairly balanced across the entire spectrum,
they're also closed back headphones, comfort is pretty on par with HD650.
 
They overall perform much better than the HD650's. Comparatively I feel the 650's are slower and much darker. 650's have the better
soundstage, MD better imaging, 650's bass has that hump, while MD has extension just isn't bass-head type. I think you'd like them though.
 
I'd have to check the price again, but the Audio-GD stuff is pretty good from what I hear. Personally don't like them. Just a preference though.
Also the O2/Odac combo would meet your needs just as well. 

 

[cel4145]

Quote:

What do you think is better, refurb or used?  That is a pretty good deal, basically less than used ones are going for.

 
I haven't bought any headphones this way, but I've bought plenty of factory refurbished, open box, and used audio equipment. If factory refurbished, then they have been repaired (if needed) to brand new and checked out by Denon. Probably tested more thoroughly than new ones. Comes with a 90 day warranty to make sure that they are working correctly. You don't get that with used.