[MikoLayer]

Well, I guess you people have seen enough of these threads, but I am still undecided after all that much reading so here it goes.

I am quite pleased with my HD-650, but try to stay open to the possibility of finding something I might have been missing. Associated gear is shown in my sig, and I am very sensitive to sibilance and could not stand CD3000 without heavy EQing. In that regard, I feel HD-650's one of the biggest strengths is its soothing sound devoid of harsness. But I have been hearing a lot of things about DT880 and K701 being "airy". I did like the airy character my previously owned headphile silver had, so either of these cans may end up staying for good in my rig. When K701 was all the rage about a month ago, I walked away and gave it a little time for FOTM factor to settle down. From what I have read so far, DT880 is sometimes accused of being shrill, which worries me a bit. K701, on the other hand, is said to suffer some bass weakness, though that isnt as much of concern to me. Ideally, I would want to go for something near $200ish, but $300 is ok I suppose if I could still resell it in the event I dont happen to care for it.

I mainly listen to game/anime OSTs, so its hard to narrow it down to a single genre. If I must though, I would say it is probably mostly J-pop and lots of female vocals, with a fair bit of clasical. Recently, there was a thread where someone provided his take on "rock music"; if it is anything like beatles or radiohead, some of my music may sound similar (sonic signature wise). On the other hand, I dont really listen to any metal, and I was never bothered by this "veil" thing sennheisers are so notorious for. My brief encounter with SR-60 was a rather surprising one, neither it was as harsh as I thought it would have been, nor it was any more fun to listen to than HD-650. Overall, I thought it sounded OK but failed to see its merit - something unique they can offer that HD-650 couldnt mimic.

Based on above stated circumstances, which one of the two cans in the title would be more fitting for me? Unfortunately, I wont have enough time or $$$ to experiment with both...

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer From what I have read so far, DT880 is sometimes accused of being shrill, which worries me a bit.

No way is it shrill, *ever*. However, it can be bright in a sibilant sort of way, particularly if the recording itself is at all bright/thin sounding. Most of the time this is not a problem in my experience, as long as the recording is good.

I figure just about any high end headphone (except HD580/600/650 perhaps) is going to weed out your CD collection, so to me the DT880 top end is nothing to worry about. If you're extremely sensitive to boosted treble though, I'd take a pass.

Edit -- You mentioned that you're sensitive to sibilance... the DT880 can occasionally be, but it's really pretty rare if your recordings are good.

 

[Mercuttio]

The DT880 is only shrill if it's not properly amped, and playing a song that is natrually somewhat shrill. I've never had a problem with that on mine. I find that the highs actually sparkle quite a bit, nice and crisp.

 

[MikoLayer]

I may sound like a broken record, but everyone seems to have a different idea or definition of what "brightness", "shrillness" or "harshness" is. For one thing, my not finding sr-60 shrill is a good sign.

As I am equally interested in both cans, looking forward to hear more opinions from those who had a chance to compare them side by side

On a side note, the best deals I found on respective phones are :

DT880 : $210 + shipping from Meier-audio
K701 : $286 + shipping from Headroom

does that sound about right? feel free to suggest alternative purchase options if you know better. Thanks.

 

[webzeb]

I couldn't answer right know as I've just back ordered both, DT880s and K701s.

However I tried the DT880s during ~1H30 with my own tubes amp, and over-all I was impressed.
I only regret two things :

1. Bass are present (even if I'd like them to be - just slightly - more), but lack impact, are not tight as I'd want...
2. Some frequency ranges - and only some of them - in the treble are emphazed, which could result in harchness or affect tones of few instruments. This being so DT880s seemed very neutral in most of cases...

cf. my topic "DT880 / Other challenger ?" for more details.

In all cases DT880s would change a lot your listening habits as their tonal response is very different of what I head with my father's HD600 (I think HD650 sound, probably, pretty similar...): treble is more present and detailled, and the cans don't show any mid-bass emphasis...

Fred

 

[Seijang]

Hey Miko!

My setup is as follows: iRiver H320 -> Hornet -> DT880s.

In terms of eastern music, I probably closely follow your tastes. I also listen to a lot of game/anime OSTs. For the generic music you find in game/anime OSTs, along with some jpop (notably I've, Ayu, the Indigo), some kpop (ClazZiQuai), and some cpop (Penny Dai) - I love my DT880s. The music is definitely airy, and wonderfully defined. The bass is perfect for this kind of music, resounding and tangible. Other people point to graphs about bass extension and stuff - but you don't really need to tell me, I can hear it from the DT880s! XD People have also talked about a slightly tipped treble, and believe me, they mean slightly tipped. I don't notice it at all when I'm engrossed in the music.

I will admit - I have never heard the Senn 650s. Therefore I can't tell you if its a good move or not to get the DT880s. I've also never heard the K701s, though I can see myself buying them after seeing some more reviews about them. My only little distraction with the DT880s is that they dont provide the needed body when it comes to harder music.. like metal, or rock, for example.

Luckily, metal and rock is still done fairly well by the DT880s, and it is great (I want to put excels, but I'm an audiophile newbie, so I dont want to be overly infectious) at everything else, including instrumentals and classical music.

Finally - I set out in my little audiophile journey trying to find a neutral pair of cans. I suppose I haven't been consistent with my amp (the Hornet) but I don't feel that the Hornet is colored. I just feel like it brings out the best in my music.

Well, good luck to you, the DT880s are only 220 so... XD Might as well get em, right? haha.

PS: SUPER COMFORTABLE ARE THE DT880s!!!

 

[amartignano]

I agree that my beloved DT880 can not be shrill or harsh, never. But they are on the bright side (still balanced and complete). The highs are maybe more present than HD650, but they are also more airy.

Now I have both HD650 and DT880, and I like better (for my tastes) the DT880, but they are on the same quality range, and they sound differently.

Many says that K701 has the strength of both HD650 and DT880...

I'll hope so.

bye
Andrew

 

[MikoLayer]

My apologies if I sounded like pushing buttons by saying DT880s may sound harsh. I havnt even seen the cans in action yet, and that wasnt even the general consensus. Just trying to avoid the hassle of buying and selling again

Seijang, thanks for your words. I just had a feeling all those things I have read on the DT880 might be just what I have been looking for, sorta. But then now that they have K701 also attractively priced, comes forth the dilemma. There are times I would listen to KOTOKO and nothing else for days... the Indigo is also one of my favorite units

Lately I been listening to ARIA and Symphonic Rain OST. ROUNDTABLE and Melocure, good stuff

 

[fjf]

The dt880 has apeak around 5KHz that makes part of its signature

Sometimes violins sound too bright, as already said, depending on the recording. However, it happens that violins ARE bright, and if a phone hides that it is altering the music. When you get used to it, lowering that peak with an equalized makes music sound muddy and without impact. I like it straight, unaltered.

 

[fewtch]

I can see how DT880 vs K701 would be a tough decision. I've been interested in the K701 myself since they came out, and have been following almost every thread. Still no clue here which sounds better, although I can compare my own DT880 impressions against other people's K701 impressions. Doesn't help at all, not even a tiny bit... I think auditioning would be the only cure.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf The dt880 has apeak around 10KHz that makes part of its signature Sometimes violins sound too bright, as already said, depending on the recording. However, it happens that violins ARE bright, and if a phone hides that it is altering the music. When you get used to it, lowering that peak with an equalized makes music sound muddy and without impact. I like it straight, unaltered.

If you look at the graph the peak is actually between 5khz and 6khz. I have measured the dt880 with test tones and a spl metter and discovered this same peak in the 5-6khz regoin; and its a large peak. I measured the headphone because I was curious why the treble seemed to resolving and etched in comparison to the rest of the frequency spectrum. I liked this headphone enough to try an equalizer to remove the peak. But this caused other problems and I gave up trying and eventually sold the headphone.


I owned the dt 880's about a year ago and I STILL find them to be a good headphone when I hear them at meets etc.... but the 880 is headphone with a flaw I am particularly sensitive to. I now have the new akg k701 and I personally believe the 701 to be a better headphone. The akg 701 seems to have no glaring flaws that will cause me to grow tired of them. The 701 has a clear, clean, spacious sound with a refined and near perfect treble, and atleast, what I would consider good bass. Maybe most important the 701 is so well balanced and natural sounding I dont analyze the sound, I just listen.

 

[slwiser]

I would love to see and compare these two phones frequency charts made by the same person with the same techniques!

I have compared many of these charts and one can see the 'veil' in the Senn charts compared with say the DT880. I suggest that when we listen to a headphone that our ears/mind average and normalize the sound while listening. The veil from the Senn phones can be seen if you put a straight line across the frequencies between 100 and 2000 Hz and notice that the high frequencies do not go above that line extended to 20000 Hz. While if you do the same thing to the Beyer phones those higher frequencies cross that line, some more than others. The same thing that I said about the Beyer phones can be said about the Gardo phones. This line has a clockwise tilt that most phones have over the initial range between 100 and 2000 Hz and I suggest that the brain levels this (makes this our horizontal reference) while we are listening. You also can see what happens to the base response below the 100 Hz with this line to make a comparison between phones in the lower bass regions.

Don't think that this line (the 100 to 2000 Hz line) has to be horizontal, the brain takes this line that I described and makes this line the balance line while listening. [size=medium]This is my conjecture.[/size] The K501 also shows that it's frequency response crosses this balance line above 2000 Hz. It is the Senns that don't cross this balance line as much as the others.

I also note that the Senn Oprheus has one of the most actually balanced lines of all those charts available and their highs stay almost right on this line except for a few dips and peaks from 60 Hz out to 20000 Hz.

Note that I am not really looking at the micro peaks/dips but the overall texture (macro view) of the chart when doing this comparison. I do this because I think the brain does a great job average and noralizing the frequencies.

Frequency chart image set is shown with the lines drawn in below with a link to the source for these charts on this page. This image is 256k large.
http://home.comcast.net/~slwiser/index.html

.

 

[DigiPete]

Recabled my 880s and it really helped the treble end quite a bit, much smoother. Got a litz braided SPC job from Highflyin9.

Ray Samuels heard it at the So Cal meet and was quite impressed with the upgrade compared to stock 880s in an A/B comparison. YMMV.

Pete

 

[crimson_squee]

I've had the hd650`s and coming from those to dt880s i wasn't happy they are great headphones but should be used with a amp also its not that the dt880`s are lacking bass so much as you just don't feel it.

great detail
very comfy
bass is a matter of taste
not natural touch bright IMO

haven't heard the k701s

 

[saint.panda]

If you lived in Germany, it'd be a no-brainer. The DT 880 is only 135€ shipped and new from a reputable German ebay store (~$150). Craaazy.