[mourip]

 
 
Yes!  It's a sea change of epic proportions (did I chum the 'Trout Farm' enough - LOL!)

 
Us fishes be jump'in out of the pond and crawling to the hook

 

[mourip]

   
 
When using Audio Optimiser you should check if the following services are still running after applying AO.
Otherwise you might have to re-enable them by hand again:
- 'Dante Discovery' service
-  'ConMon' service
 
From the User Guide of Dante Virtual Sound Card:

 
Thanks. Much appreciated!
 
Right now applying 119 Windows patches because I was in Core Mode so long

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

There are still many Ethernet for audio tweaks around. I'm surprised there hasn't been any talk in here with the great benefits that fibre Ethernet provides over copper. You can use a device called an FMC (Fibre Media Convertor) that has standard copper, RJ-45 on one side (connect to your normal device) the fibre for the run between devices, then back in another FMC so that you can connect the normal Ethernet port on the other side to your other device.

Like the above mentioned idea of going optical out of the Focusrite RN3, this 100% isolates components as there's no copper for the nasties to travel on.

There's HUGE thread on it over at ComputerAudiophile, and if I were going with Focusrite Rednet products I'd definitely go the extra mile and put in some FMCs

Quoted over from johnjen's DIY thread. Might be interest to folks talking isolation for ethernet.

 

[rb2013]

   
Us fishes be jump'in out of the pond and crawling to the hook

LOL!  It's a Large Mouth Bass Pond!

 

[rb2013]

Quoted over from @johnjen's DIY thread. Might be interest to folks talking isolation for ethernet.

What 'nastys' is he imagining?  Ethernet is already GI if your using UTP.
 
I guess for the ultra paranoid you could add a medical grade GI - or if you wanted to go STP (which is what these schemes are trying to isolate).
 
Just like these $1000 Ethernet cables - snake oil - IMHO.
 
I highly doubt any sonic benefit.
 
I know it's hard but with AOIP AES67  -we have to reset our thinking.  It's not just USB over a LAN

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Tbh I don't know. The r3 sounds fantastic as is.

What 'nastys' is he imagining?  Ethernet is already GI if your using UTP.

I guess for the ultra paranoid you could add a medical grade GI - or if you wanted to go STP (which is what these schemes are trying to isolate).

Just like these $1000 Ethernet cables - snake oil - IMHO.

I highly doubt any sonic benefit.

I know it's hard but with AOIP AES67  -we have to reset our thinking.  It's not just USB over a LAN

 

[Acrobat77]

Never said it was an Uptone product - of course it's Sonore - I've linked to about 10 times already.

Like some other folks you love to correct what I never said. :wink_face:  

Let me restate - that under a licensing agreement between John Swenson and Sonore - sub paragraph f of the co-licensing and IP agreement there it states a co-revenue model for co-commitment revenue sharing in term of a per unit de facto, ipso facto, agreement, not to be misunderstood as a product of the first part, but only a product of the second party - with the right to disclose that such an IP sharing agreement in public forums, with the implied and explicate consent of all parties to the agreement, respective of sub section a,c,d, and e provisions.

That better?

Dude you must be a lawyer!  

This kind of nit picky duchiness is better suited to CA.

You said you believed "Uptone included some of the Regen tech (for USB gremlins) in the microRendu"....ehhh OK.

LOL, I'm no lawyer. If you wouldn't spread misinformation me and those other folks wouldn't need to correct anything. It seems to be part of your 'style' though, especially with those products you're dismissive of. If I'd have a mouth as big as yours I'd like be sure the things I say are true.

Just now I saw you write that one needs NAA with HQPlayer which isn't true. You initially wrote the microRendu is a uPnP player which is less than half true. You misunderstood Roon/RAAT and after explaining how it really works you started calling it RATT and calling it the old Airplay..sigh.. Earlier you thanked me for pointing you at the differences between the Mutec MC-3+ and MC-3+ USB which you believed were the same as re-clockers. Just some examples of course that come to mind, I'm not your stalker. Can I/we only "correct" you when it benefits you directly? No, it's a public forum, others might benefit as well.

I'm not selling anything and I believe you aren't either so would it hurt much to make sure the things we say are true?

 

[FredA]

Looking forward to receiving my f-1.

But my current setup is already awesome, that is:

mac mini->jb->schiit usb cable->schiit wyrd->supra usb .5m->intona standard->ab system mkii usb ->breeze with talema and crysteks->rj45 i2s->audio-gd m7

Those crysteks took a long time to reach their full potential. Was an easy mod with the twisted pear audio pcb-mounted clocks.

Awesomely deep and controlled bass, pin point stereo image and all the meat on the bone i can wish for. Listening to this setup, i am starting doubting the f-1 will do better but it should, considering the comments. So i will keep you posted.

The ethernet audio solution looks promising, i am waiting for a cheap solution with i2s out.

 

[rb2013]

You said you believed "Uptone included some of the Regen tech (for USB gremlins) in the microRendu"....ehhh OK.

LOL, I'm no lawyer. If you wouldn't spread misinformation me and those other folks wouldn't need to correct anything. It seems to be part of your 'style' though, especially with those products you're dismissive of. If I'd have a mouth as big as yours I'd like be sure the things I say are true.

Just now I saw you write that one needs NAA with HQPlayer which isn't true. You initially wrote the microRendu is a uPnP player which is less than half true. You misunderstood Roon/RAAT and after explaining how it really works you started calling it RATT and calling it the old Airplay..sigh.. Earlier you thanked me for pointing you at the differences between the Mutec MC-3+ and MC-3+ USB which you believed were the same as re-clockers. Just some examples of course that come to mind, I'm not your stalker. Can I/we only "correct" you when it benefits you directly? No, it's a public forum, others might benefit as well.

I'm not selling anything and I believe you aren't either so would it hurt much to make sure the things we say are true?

Well I welcome any corrections in what I post and I may misstate things from time to time - especially as prolific a poster as I am (approaching 4700 posts).
 
It's just the DB manner in which you do it - but I guess that's your style.
 
Now I do believe Mutec is misleading folks (esp with their attention to product nomenclature) with the use of the same naming for the MC-3+ and MC-3+ USB.  This to me highly deceptive.  Maybe it should be MC-3++ USB or MC-3.1+ USB.  Be that as it may - thanks for the update.  What this blogging is all about.   No one is perfect - even you Great Audio Guru.
 
Now as for my typing and English - sorry I'm a math guy and I am a horrible speller, typist and linguist.  So I will mistype things  - excuse my lack of perfection.
 
As for the micro Rendu - you say I initially wrote microRendu is a UPNP (as Sonore types it - ALL caps my friend) device - how can something be 'half true'.  Either it's true or not.
Don't want to digress into a Boolean logic philosophy discussion.  But this a direct cut and paste from Sonore's website:

SELECTABLE OUTPUT MODES
Mode #1 - SqueezeLite Output - This output works with any Logitech Media Server and compatible controllers. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM and DSD/DoP.

Mode #2 - ShairPort Output - This is an AirPlay emulator that utilizes streams sent to it from a compatible source. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM.

Mode #3 - MPD/DLNA Output:

Mode #3a - DLNA Output - This output utilizes streams from UPNP/DLNA servers and controllers. This output can be configured as an OpenHome renderer. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #3b - MPD Output - This output is intended to work with a SMB mount. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

Mode #4 - HQ Player NAA Output - This output utilizes streams from Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by HQ Player and then asynchronously streamed to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) output. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.
Mode #5 - RoonReady Output - This output utilizes streams from Roon. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

So maybe I'm misinterpeting the meaning of "This output utilizes streams from UPNP/DLNA servers and controllers."  Nothing would surprise me in the arcane, confusing, obfuscated world of Rendu/Roon/RAAT/DNLA/UPNP/NAA/HQPLAYER.
 
Like this masterpiece: "HQ Player NAA Output - This output utilizes streams from Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by HQ Player and then asynchronously streamed to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) output. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD."
 
Even for Sonore (who I do respect) - where their own totl statement Rendu Signature - does not do Roon/RAAT, or Roon or RAAT, or any combination of the three.  Yet does all these:

 STANDARD FEATURES
Supports Tidal lossless streaming via BubbleUPNP controller on an Android device
Supports Tidal lossless streaming via BubbleServer and Linn Kazoo controller
Supports gapless playback
Supports DSD/DoP pass through via SPDIF output
Isolation from server noise over network
Asynchronous Ethernet to SPDIF / LVDS i2s output
Integrated, 32 bit, high precision volume control
Supports 24 bit PCM playback at sample rates up to 192KHz via SPDIF and LVDS i2s output
Supports native DSD playback up to DSD128 via LVDS i2s output 
Controlled via apps on a computer, Android, and iOS device
UPnPTM AV 2.0 / DLNA compliant
Gold plated exposed copper on printed circuit boards
Impedance control on digital output module
Stripline design with traces buried in the inner layers of the board to give the best signal integrity and EMI protection

This is a horrendous confusing mess - of non-standard proprietary and expensive Gordian knots.
 
With this long list of things - it still doesn't do the Roon/RAAT dance - well pardon me if I didn't get this tower of babel entirely correct.  There are maybe ten people, if that in all of audio , that can make sense of this confusion...
 
Then on top of all this YOU STILL NEED A USB DEVICE to get the microrendu to work! 
 
Now I never said RAAT was the old Airplay - just based on it - so nothing really new - just improved:
From the Roon website:

 What’s the difference? RAAT vs AirPlay...

I am so glad to have a AOIP solution that works and sounds at a whole new level.
 
Well I will sleep well knowing you are waiting on baited breathe for every word I type - so you can get your rocks off on correcting. 
 
Have fun!

 

 

[Benny-x]

 
What 'nastys' is he imagining?  Ethernet is already GI if your using UTP.
 
I guess for the ultra paranoid you could add a medical grade GI - or if you wanted to go STP (which is what these schemes are trying to isolate).
 
Just like these $1000 Ethernet cables - snake oil - IMHO.
 
I highly doubt any sonic benefit.
 
I know it's hard but with AOIP AES67  -we have to reset our thinking.  It's not just USB over a LAN

RB.You're a supporter and reposter of a lot of information, much of it subjective. Why call out what I'm passing along when I said there's a big thread on it? Just go read and see for yourself. 
 
If you were more aware, you'd have seen that post came from a thread about exploring tweaks, not the sound science forum. Oddly, none of your subjective threads are in the sound science forums either... The idea of that thread, and of many threads, is to make information and different points of view available, then let the user choose. The fibre Ethernet thread on CA has a lot of valuable comparisons on hardware, connectivity, modding, and results, not unlike your glorious, but subjective, USB->SPDIF threads. Why jump right to attempting to put "snake oil", audiophile Ethernet cable words in my mouth? Just because you're unfamiliar with the topic doesn't mean it's time to denounce. That's quite ignorant, wouldn't you agree?
 
Fibre Ethernet vs. copper is very much a real subject, are there benefits in the audio world, maybe so, maybe not. But I suppose you're a math guy and the above was just a typo?
 
There's no excuse for bad English nor for not looking into what you post or re-post. Saying otherwise is just a cop out.

 

[Acrobat77]

 
Well I welcome any corrections in what I post and I may misstate things from time to time - especially as prolific a poster as I am (approaching 4700 posts).
 
It's just the DB manner in which you do it - but I guess that's your style.
 
Now I do believe Mutec is misleading folks (esp with their attention to product nomenclature) with the use of the same naming for the MC-3+ and MC-3+ USB.  This to me highly deceptive.  Maybe it should be MC-3++ USB or MC-3.1+ USB.  Be that as it may - thanks for the update.  What this blogging is all about.   No one is perfect - even you Great Audio Guru.
 
Now as for my typing and English - sorry I'm a math guy and I am a horrible speller, typist and linguist.  So I will mistype things  - excuse my lack of perfection.
 
As for the micro Rendu - you say I initially wrote microRendu is a UPNP (as Sonore types it - ALL caps my friend) device - how can something be 'half true'.  Either it's true or not.
Don't want to digress into a Boolean logic philosophy discussion.  But this a direct cut and paste from Sonore's website:
So maybe I'm misinterpeting the meaning of "This output utilizes streams from UPNP/DLNA servers and controllers."  Nothing would surprise me in the arcane, confusing, obfuscated world of Rendu/Roon/RAAT/DNLA/UPNP/NAA/HQPLAYER.
 
Like this masterpiece: "HQ Player NAA Output - This output utilizes streams from Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by HQ Player and then asynchronously streamed to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) output. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD."
 
Even for Sonore (who I do respect) - where their own totl statement Rendu Signature - does not do Roon/RAAT, or Roon or RAAT, or any combination of the three.  Yet does all these:
This is a horrendous confusing mess - of non-standard proprietary and expensive Gordian knots.
 
With this long list of things - it still doesn't do the Roon/RAAT dance - well pardon me if I didn't get this tower of babel entirely correct.  There are maybe ten people, if that in all of audio , that can make sense of this confusion...
 
Then on top of all this YOU STILL NEED A USB DEVICE to get the microrendu to work! 
 
Now I never said RAAT was the old Airplay - just based on it - so nothing really new - just improved:
From the Roon website:
I am so glad to have a AOIP solution that works and sounds at a whole new level.
 
Well I will sleep well knowing are waiting on baited breathe for every word I type - so you can get your rock off on correcting. 
 
Have fun!

 

 
Please keep in mind that I'm from The Netherlands and so English isn't my native language. I don't know what 'the DB manner' is/means but I'm guessing it's not a positive thing. I always try to be the point and factual as much as I can but I guess in doing so I may come across as harsh/overly direct or even arrogant but I actually mean no harm. I sure as hell don't want to pretend I know it all, far from it, but some things are really down to earth factual like e.g. the functionalities of a product like Roon. You won't see me discussing the subjective merits (or lack of) of an expensive ethernet cable for example.
 
I don't like/enjoy to correct you or anyone else but I do dislike seeing people writing in dismissive ways of other hard working people or peoples work/products when they don't have or present the facts straight. It feels like unjustice to me and that person "having an agenda". I guess I shouldn't have responded to your last post as I clearly failed in trying to explain what I meant though. Perhaps I shouldn't even feel 'responsible' at all and thus feel the need to 'correct' misstated facts (whatever the reason behind those misstatings is).
 
 
Personally I don't see why Mutec is misleading folks or why using the same name is 'highly deceptive'. I rather think it's in their disadvantage. Just look at yourself, you would have bought the cheaper device since the product names didn't make clear there's a difference except for the USB port.

What I meant with "half true" was that the microRendu is more than just a uPnP renderer while you seemed to portray it earlier as just that. But please forget it, I didn't read back in this long topic to find your exact words. I could even mix this up with you stating Roon is/does uPnp which of course we now both know isn't true. In any way I don't think it's an "arcane, confusing, obfuscated world". There's five known modes of playback each using well known and proven players/renderers being either open source or proprietary solutions. If you don't like any of those then that's of course your opinion anyone has to respect.

We already discussed the Sonore Signature Rendu not supporting Roon. I don't see why that's such a big issue for you or even an issue at all. It's been on the market for quite some time and probably simply wasn't designed to support it. If they could/can support it I'm sure they would/will but it needs to have a certain hard- and software architecture to support the Roon Ready/RAAT requirements. I don't know if it has or not but neither do you so we'd need to ask Sonore for the facts which they can choose to disclose, or not. Anyway, there's thousands of DAC's/streamers/DDC's that can't support it and this of course may/will change in the future since it's becoming quite the popular solution, at least in high-end.
 
The microRendu is -deliberately- designed to be a ethernet-USB DDC so of course you need a USB device. You've said goodbye to your "uber USB chain" what, two weeks ago? Do you expect the world to follow you in that same time period? Do you expect the world to follow you at all and if we don't are we all stupid now all of a sudden? It's a bit scary to see you write with your fanatiscism sometimes. But hey that's just me, I signed up a week ago and it's your topic.
 
RAAT is not the old airplay or based on it. Period. Have you ever seen Apple sharing any core technologies of theirs with others? RAAT is a Roon proprietary network streaming protocol. The comparison with Airplay was only made to explain what it is and how/why it's better than the thing most people already know and would think to be similar in functionality.
 
I'm glad you're happy with the Dante based solution. Like I wrote earlier I will probably try it myself someday as well, it shows great promise and I like the virtual soundcard functionality. It's one of the reasons I bought my Devialet, it offers AIR which is similar in functionality. AIR, up to now, is just poorly implemented by Devialet as I explained earlier.
 
I'll probably leave it at this from now (I mean it's probably the last I write about it all) but please remember I didn't mean to offend/hurt you in any way correcting any misstated facts.

 
Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

Just a quick note on this thread and my other AOIP thread - My threads tend to be fairly open affairs - as I believe this leads to fruit full information sharing.  As opposed to a very strict narrow thread.
 
Both with the XU208 XMOS F-1 and other USB devices I have blogged about here and now the discovery of these fantastic REDNET AOIP devices - we have been at the cutting edge of computer audio.
 
It's not surprising that we're ruffing many audio feathers - especially with the AOIP stuff.  It wouldn't surprise me that some MOT are posting under pseudonyms to try and undermine me.
 
They have large investments and large revenue models to exploit.  It is strange the OP comment about 'not selling anything here', hum...
 
Anyway the popularity of these threads and the positive feedback from others on my recommendations speaks for itself.  We are at the cutting edge of a major sea change in computer audio and the reports from those trying the REDNET boxes has been overwhelmingly positive.  You heard it ALL hear first!  We are effecting change in the audio business itself with our grass roots efforts.  These will be met with derision, scorn, rage and rebuttal.  But the SQ speaks for itself.
 
Great news on the AOIP front  Focusrite replied back to a question on the REDNET SR changing and this was their reply:

 I had contact with Focusrite support about RD3 / RD16 automatically following sample rates on the PC.
To be short: it cannot be done.

This is the answer from Focusrite support:

Just got some additional information from Focusrite about developments that will be released in a few months that will allow it:

I just wanted to follow up on your conversation with Louie yesterday.

At present, DVS cannot be used to change the sample rate of RedNet devices on the network, however this is something we're looking to alter with the next release of RedNet Control, which we are aiming to have available towards the end of August (version 1.10).

Please note that, for this to work in the way you desire, the playback program you are using would need to be able to change the sample rate of the playback driver (in thiscase, DVS). Typically, this is only possible from playback software that utilises ASIO drivers (pretty much all DAW software + some media players such as Foobar).

With the next release of RedNet Control, once the playback software changes the sample rate DVS is working at this can be configured to also change the sample rate of other RedNet devices on your network.

 
Cheers!

 

 

[rb2013]

  RB.You're a supporter and reposter of a lot of information, much of it subjective. Why call out what I'm passing along when I said there's a big thread on it? Just go read and see for yourself. 
 
If you were more aware, you'd have seen that post came from a thread about exploring tweaks, not the sound science forum. Oddly, none of your subjective threads are in the sound science forums either... The idea of that thread, and of many threads, is to make information and different points of view available, then let the user choose. The fibre Ethernet thread on CA has a lot of valuable comparisons on hardware, connectivity, modding, and results, not unlike your glorious, but subjective, USB->SPDIF threads. Why jump right to attempting to put "snake oil", audiophile Ethernet cable words in my mouth? Just because you're unfamiliar with the topic doesn't mean it's time to denounce. That's quite ignorant, wouldn't you agree?
 
Fibre Ethernet vs. copper is very much a real subject, are there benefits in the audio world, maybe so, maybe not. But I suppose you're a math guy and the above was just a typo?
 
There's no excuse for bad English nor for not looking into what you post or re-post. Saying otherwise is just a cop out.

I was wondering when you would show up here!  We have prot, why not my old friend Benny. The more the merrier!
 
Now my comment on these ethernet gizmos being 'snake oil' are my words not yours and I did say IMHO.  So how is me saying something - put words in your mouth?  They are clearly my words...the old straw man technique.

  Just like these $1000 Ethernet cables - snake oil - IMHO.
 
I highly doubt any sonic benefit.
 
I know it's hard but with AOIP AES67  -we have to reset our thinking.  It's not just USB over a LAN

- but that's fine do whatever you wish to AOIP to try and improve it!  I just don't see the point.  But you are right I should be open minded about things like ethernet filters and optical connections, etc..  I just won't be sending any of my money on it.  Now JCAT offered to send me his $500 JCAT CAT6 cable and his $500 JCAT USB card.
 
I will try them for a free trail.  So we will see - I'm a huge believer in cables.  Just my own experience with the direct REDNET AOIP is they make no difference.  Unlike the USB ICRON GB LAN extender/isolator.
 
Glad you enjoy my "glorious subjective USB>SPDIF threads"!
 
I will repost Srajan's comments from the excellent 6Moons review of the La Scala MK2 DAC now these are his words not yours or mine - but I agree with them.  And I imagine you and few OP don't - sorry...

Buzz-word compliance

is its de rigueur mortis and mega pixel count. It preys on misinformed consumers who shop by the numbers. Hence by mid 2014, AMR's iFi division had gone positively purple with glee to announce 768kHz PCM and DSD

octa compliance

. By then DSD256 whose very first commercial files had just begun to appear was already passé. DSD512 was the new 'in' to remind us that all life is cyclical. It spirals out of control. Then it collapses and begins anew. On cyclical, in the crusades Christianity had its holy wars. Today it's the turn of Islam. In hifi the former were the THD and IMD wars. The latter's present equivalents target digital sample rates. Faced by such accelerating madness, Aqua pray for all-out peace. Their

assalaamu a'laikum

or

pax vobiscum

is refusal to participate. Opt out. Say no to DSD and anything above 24/192. How refreshing. If John Darko's assessment had it right, this decision was far from counter-productive. Quite possibly it was the crucial enabler. Obviously neither Metrum's Hex nor Aqua's La Voce had upsampled, quadrupled or DSD'd. Yet on those I was sold already from close familiarity. Time out then from the digital hamster mill which would turn us into

octagenarians

well before our time. Mind, I'm not singling out iFi. They were simply first to hit those particular numbers. More will undoubtedly follow. That's the whole mechanism of fashion. It's a lemming brigade. 

 
PS As this AOIP REDNET stuff spreads - expect more flame attacks - now we know we have folks attention!

 

[jelt2359]

Quoted over from johnjen's DIY thread. Might be interest to folks talking isolation for ethernet.

I have this optical bridge, as recommended by Romaz. The guy took top honours in innerfidelity's big sound event in terms of being able to tell tom from harry in a blind ab test of amps, so I trust his ears a tonne. He also, happily, tested multiple high end servers (caps, aurender, total dac etc etc). This optical tweak was something he told me worked marvels. With all the parts available from Amazon for less than $100-150 or so, and no software needed, it was an easy test. Also easy to unplug the optical devices's ethernet out and use an Ethernet cable direct from the router instead to compare. My friends and I can personally tell the difference immediately. Lower noise, less harsh presentation, and cleaner all around. It's now a permanent fixture in my chain.

Ymmv, but I think it's worth a shot.

 

[Benny-x]

   
Please keep in mind that I'm from The Netherlands and so English isn't my native language.
 
I guess I shouldn't have responded to your last post as I clearly failed in trying to explain what I meant though. Perhaps I shouldn't even feel 'responsible' at all and thus feel the need to 'correct' misstated facts (whatever the reason behind those misstatings is).

Dude, your English is fine and I understood exactly what you meant. If it's not your first language than RB's even more of a math guy than he mentioned...
 
You were spot on when you said he was only "half right" about the microRendu, but it's actually worse because according to the 5 point functional description he quoted himself as evidence, he was only 20% right... Though he made his way around to a few websites to collect evidence to refute what you said, any reader that's familiar with the microRendu would see that he dug his own grave and only proved your point by quoting from their website. I suppose that's a whole other topic, though. 
 
You didn't come across wrongly at all, RB was just acting like the dismissive part that you mentioned and being a DB like he said you were. A DB is a ****** bag, and you're correct, it's not a positive thing and basically means being a dick.
 
RB's claim to fame is that he started some good threads where a bunch of other people come together to discuss things, but the down side is he's close minded and very confrontational to people and things he's not already on board with.