[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by rb2013 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
....  The reclocking is important to improve signal integrity - the higher the signal integrity - the lower the PHY and USB receiver's AGC has to work -
this leads to lower 'packet noise' intermodulating through the DDC's PSR.
Each reclocking by a better fed femto clock lowers jitter - the initial data stream with lower jitter helps the clock.
The W4S Recovery uses Crystek clocks (some of the best).
The reason I'm not a fan of the Intona - it reclocks but with el-cheapo botl SiTime clocks...
but the upcoming Uber-Regen will be an improvement on this.

 
Hi and thanks a lot for the always valuable advice.   I thought that usb connection were much less sensitive to these issues.
In the end between pc and interface usually there are max 2 meters ?   all this degradation of the signal in 2 meters ?
I have a curiosity. Would a Gigabit ethernet connection a better solution ?
Another thing that i do not like at all is the usb connector.  I would like better the rj45 with its locking mechanism.
I promise.  I will stop with ramblings.  Almost.
Thanks a lot again,   gino

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi and thanks a lot again.  I think the same.   Replacing on element of a chain with another one with the same function but better can only improve the overall result.
I am sure of this.   No doubts.   However many of the ancillaries (power supplies, reclockers, etc.)  can be used also with the F-1.
 
 
Do you mean that 30W model with the R-core transformer ?  and that if i buy the 9VDC model i can vary the Vout down to 5VDC ?
I have different devices to try that use different V in that range.
I was thinking to buy 2 or 3 iFi power ... but i guess the Teradak is better.
I have already the small one you mention. This one here
 
http://www.teradak.com/products/46.html
 
 
From what i have read it seems that also these devices benefit from a better PS.   For instance the Regen is sold with a good quality SMPS.
But using a better linear PS is said to be beneficial.  Never tried it.
I have already a simple and cheap USB isolator bought on ebay.  It works but i do not know what it does to the sound.
Thanks a lot again.  gino

Yes the TeraDak DC-30W and the X1/X2 have adjustable DC voltage - see this little blue box and the brass screw on top.  You need a volt meter to read the power outputs.  Becareful the unit has to be live and LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGE inside.   A local electronics shop open it up and reset for you.

 
The R-Core version is better  - I recapped my X1/X2 with Nichicon HW's so - it pretty darn good.  If you get the DC-30W get the one with the Pannie 3300uf FM caps.
 
YES!!! The Regen and the Recovery need as clean a power source as possible - for several reasons.  First they have on board clocks - to reclock the USB signal, Second they  send clean +5VDC to the DDC.  They both use ultra low noise regulators to clean the incoming 7-9 VDC to output 5 VDC.
 
Cheers!

 

[ginetto61]

 

Yes the TeraDak DC-30W and the X1/X2 have adjustable DC voltage -

 
Hi !  do you think that i could get the 12VDC unit and use it even down to 5VDC ? because i would like to use it for usb power up to 12VDC with another dac that needs this voltage.  Is it stretching too much ?
 

see this little blue box and the brass screw on top. You need a volt meter to read the power outputs. Becareful the unit has to be live and LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGE inside. A local electronics shop open it up and reset for you.
 
The R-Core version is better - I recapped my X1/X2 with Nichicon HW's so - it pretty darn good.
If you get the DC-30W get the one with the Pannie 3300uf FM caps.    

 
Thanks again ! however no problem ... recapping is my forte

  actually the only mod i can do more or less easily
I have a desoldering gun and good tin.
By the way i like also the squared transformer in the smaller unit.  I do not understand why all people are mad about toroidal.  I am sure the squared one is better.
 

YES!!! The Regen and the Recovery need as clean a power source as possible - for several reasons.
First they have on board clocks - to reclock the USB signal, Second they send clean +5VDC to the DDC.
They both use ultra low noise regulators to clean the incoming 7-9 VDC to output 5 VDC.
Cheers!   

 
I see a very important point.   Instead i am a little doubtful about the quality of the regulators on board.
IMHO if a device is sensitive to the power supply quality means that is not very well regulated.  It is a little like with power cords.
If a unit is sensitive to the cord swapping there is some issue in the power supply of the unit.
The power cords act in the end as filters on mains noise with different efficiency.
I still think that two power cords with decent shielding and same L,R and C should sound the same.
I will buy one 30W unit.  I love that R-Core transformer.
Thanks a lot again.  gino  
 
P.S.  may i ask you were are you based ?

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi and thanks a lot for the always valuable advice.   I thought that usb connection were much less sensitive to these issues.
In the end between pc and interface usually there are max 2 meters ?   all this degradation of the signal in 2 meters ?
I have a curiosity. Would a Gigabit ethernet connection a better solution ?
Another thing that i do not like at all is the usb connector.  I would like better the rj45 with its locking mechanism.
I promise.  I will stop with ramblings.  Almost.
Thanks a lot again,   gino

ALL digital connections will have issues of one sort or another - it's just now after how many decades after USB launched we are finally understanding how to address these issues.  That is the key - it's like great analog - how long that took (40 yrs) to perfect!  I could write three pages on what was done there to address it's issues.  So don't get hung up on connectors and boxes.
 
If it works and sounds better - use it!   Trust your ears.  That's my motto.  All this theory stuff and 'test bench' measurements is fine - but when it comes to SQ may not help.
 
The issue with USB is not the cable (assuming you are using a great one) it is the conversion of a series of 'packets' into a digital stream.  Why the DDC is so very important.
 
In fact, after starting my Gustard U12 thread a year ago, and now this thread, rolling through all these various devices - I have realized how critical this part of the chain is.  My system: Amps, DAC, Speakers, cables have remained pretty much the same through the process.  And the unbeliveable increasing in performance from upgrading these little devices (and the many tweeks and gizmos) - has left me STUNNED~!
 
My system now at least ties and in many ways beats my old $30K analog rig!  For a tiny fraction of the cost.  In fact, just one of my old cartridges, the Dynavector XV1-S cost multiples more then my whole DDC set-up!
 
The nice part of the way I have the power and data chains refined - I can just plug and play now - say to compare the F-1 to the NDK SD clocked X-1, or the upcoming DXIO Pro4a.  Easy peasey. 
 
Also remember the advent of the Schiit Wyrd and these other USB gizmos - is just in it's infancy.  I'm sure more and better to come - so Read my Chord DAVE thread post - $13000 newest sota DAC - USB and SPDIF  - that's it!  I have posted now at least 4-5 brand new sota DAC's from the top audio designers - who only use USB and SPDIF  and laugh at all the amateur armchair audio engineers who think they can do better with their digital connection schemes!  And all the gymnastics to get i2s to work.
 
You see you're not the only one who can ramble!
 
Cheers

 

 

[rb2013]

Reposted for Gino:
Quote:

  Reading in 'Hi-Fi News' the review of the Chord 'DAVE' DAC - wow what a piece of gear.  The lowest jitter measurements I've ever seen 8psec on 96k SPDIF and 5psec on USB!
 
This sota $13,000 DAC/HP amp does not do i2s - but can do 384k over BNC SPDIF!  The first time I have ever seen that.  And get this it can output 768K/32-bit over a coax BNC connection!
 
This was an interesting quote:

 'Revelatory' is a pretty strong term to describe a piece of Hi-Fi equipment, but that's just what Chord's DAVE is.  Furthermore, while most of my listening was via the USB input from my dedicated Mac Mini, it's just as striking when fed via the optical and coaxial inputs...

 

 


 
 
PS Edit - From the Chord website - checkout the Coax spec
http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/products-info.asp?id=98
 

DAVE​

Chord Electronics has launched its most advanced DAC to date. Given the acronym DAVE,
Chord''s latest-generation digital-to-analogue convertor features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before.

DAVE is a highly advanced reference-grade DAC, digital preamp and headphone amplifier. Hand-made in Kent, DAVE is based around a proprietary FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) offering more than ten times the program capacity of its predecessor.

At its heart lies a new (and in electronics terms, huge) LX75 version of the Spartan 6 Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA). The FPGA''s extraordinary capability enables a number of key sonic benefits including significantly improved timing and the best noise-shaper performance of any known DAC. DAVE''s technology delivers music with unmatched reality and musicality, with an unrivalled timing response.


Inputs:
USB B-style: 44 kHz to 768 kHz - DXD and Quad DSD
2x optical: 44kHz to 192kHz
1 x AES: 44kHz to 192kHz
4 x Coax: 44kHz to 384kHz
Dual-data mode available

Outputs digital:
2x ultra-high-speed coax 768kHz dual-data mode for use with future-unannounced Chord Electronics products.

Maximum output voltage: 6 volts RMS
THD and noise at 2.5 volts: RMS 0.000015 %
THD and noise at 2.5 volts: 127dBA Awt (124dBA into 33 ohms)
Dynamic range at -60 dBFS 1kHz -127 dBA A wt
(No measurable noise floor modulation, no a harmonic distortion)
(Analogue distortion characteristic: no distortion for small signals)
Power requirements: mains power 80 volts to 260 volts; AC 20 watts​

 

 
 
Was someone telling me that FPGA's add jitter????

 
 
PSS - Oh and somebody else was telling me that USB is a deadend and SPDIF a archaic deadend...well DAVE says no...

 

 

[audioelements]

  Excellent, like the variation on 'even my wife thought it sounded good', lol. Getting mine next week. Will be interesting to see if you pursue the improved ps ideas. 

 
 

 
Great review!  I'm very interested in your ideas on removing the DC-DC converter.  Gathering up good modding ideas!

Thanks for the nice word.  sbgk, those "even my wife liked it" thing did work on forums, didn't it? LOL .
 
I contacted the designer. He said that de-soldering the DC-DC converter is doable. He used the DC-DC converter because he wanted the board to be simply plug-and-play and lower the cost. The +5V and Ground is clearly labelled on the back of the board. Those two through-holes are located closely to the DC-DC converter, both on the second section of the board. The DC-DC converter has 4 pins, crossing the isolation zone. He said that the voltage needed to be between 4.6v-5.2v. Supply over 5.2V will damage the board. I will keep it as-is for now. I am waiting Lucian's (luckit.biz) waveIO board. I will compare those two. One is a newer chip with up-to-date design, the other has been around since 2012 using an early XMOS chip. I bet the I2S from the F-1 would be better due to the signal shaping following the isolation chip (both used isolation chips for I2S). I am interested in comparing the spdif outputs of those two boards. The F-1 uses crystek CCHD clocks while the WaveIO uses NDK clocks.It seems arguable which one sounded better, more of a personal preference, from what I've read.
 
A followup after 24 hours. First, the board is very stable with Linux. The USB Gen2 board in my Schiit Gungnir DAC would disconnected with my media server after a day of continues play - I would need to reboot my server to re-establish the connection. The F-1 has been playing without a glitch in the first 24 hours. Second, the board brought even more details. I wouldn't call it "warm" sounding after 24 hours burn-in. Now it is neutral with extended lows and highs. Don't worry, the treble is still good! just more details, but still very ... sweet. As a result, I felt that the sound stage has been opened up more, and a little bit closer to me. The voice from the singers was floating in the middle. I assume because the sound stage got deeper.
 
Every time I tweaked my system, I got different sound. Many of which, I think, were just changes in "tastes" - hard to say "improved". But this F-1 card brought a remarkable improvement in both sonic aspects and musicality. Considering it costs less than $200, I rate it as one of the best cost-effective spending in my setup.

 

[rb2013]

   
 
Thanks for the nice word.  sbgk, those "even my wife liked it" thing did work on forums, didn't it? LOL .
 
I contacted the designer. He said that de-soldering the DC-DC converter is doable. He used the DC-DC converter because he wanted the board to be simply plug-and-play and lower the cost. The optional +5V and Ground is clearly labelled on the back of the board. Those two through-holes are located closely to the DC-DC converter, both on the second section of the board. The DC-DC converter has 4 pins, crossing the isolation zone. He said that the voltage need to be between 4.6v-5.2v. Supply over 5.2V will damage the board. I will keep it as-is for now. I am waiting Lucian's (luckit.biz) waveIO board. I will compare those two. One is a newer chip with up-to-date design, the other has been around since 2012 using an early XMOS chip. I bet the I2S from the F-1 would be better due to the signal shaping following the isolation chip (both used isolation chips for I2S). I am interested in comparing the spdif outputs of those two boards. The F-1 uses crystek CCHD clocks while the WaveIO uses NDK clocks.It seems arguable which one sounded better, more of a personal preference.
 
A followup after 24 hours. First, the board is very stable. The USB Gen2 board in my Schiit Gungnir DAC would disconnected with my media server after a day of continues play - I would need to reboot my server to re-establish the connection. The F-1 has been playing without a glitch in the first 24 hours. Second, the board brought even more details. I wouldn't call it "warm" sounding after 24 hours burn-in. Now it is neutral with extended lows and highs. Don't worry, the treble is still good! just more details, but still very ... sweet. As a result, I felt that the sound stage has been opened up more, and a little bit closer to me. The voice from the singers was floating in the middle. I assume because the sound stage got deeper.
 
Every time I tweak my system, I got different sound. Many of which, I think, were just changes in "tastes" - hard to say "improved". But this F-1 card brought a remarkable improvement in both sonic aspects and musicality in my setup. Considering it costs less than $200, I rate it as one of the best cost-effective spending in my setup.

Nice write up!  The Luckit WaveI/O board looks very nice as well.  Singxer makes a another DDC called the X-1 which uses the NDk SD clocks and the XU208 - $69 on Ebay!
Also plug and play ready.  I will do a face off in the main system between the two -as they are now both burned in.
 
What is your power supply and data chains?  Regen? Recovery? Intona? LPS? Ifi stuff?  USB and SPDIF cables?

 

[audioelements]

 
Nice write up!  The Luckit WaveI/O board looks very nice as well.  Singxer makes a another DDC called the X-1 which uses the NDk SD clocks and the XU208 - $69 on Ebay!
Also plug and play ready.  I will do a face off in the main system between the two -as they are now both burned in.
 
What is your power supply and data chains?  Regen? Recovery? Intona? LPS? Ifi stuff?  USB and SPDIF cables?

Hi rb2013,
 
I don't have those yet, and I use cheap USB cables - straightwire USB or Belkin Gold (now very cheap on amazon).
 
My thought was: "OK, the usb is bad, the computer is noisy. I would then use a 5 watt single board linux computer, feeding with a clean LPS, then I've cut the dirty source from the beginning." Now I understand that it is not true, because those single board computers (raspberry pi and similar) have on-board DC-DC converters. It is inevitable, for example, the CPU adjust their speed and voltage according to the demands. Thus even use a LPS, the USB output can be very noisy. Well, it is better (cleaner) than the USB from a laptop. In addition, I noticed differences between using the power-plug and using the battery in the laptop - battery is better.
 
This is off the topic. But now another interesting question: is a LPS or a Li-po battery bank better for my signle board computer? My answer is the LPS better. Why? I think because the li-po battery bank, which is mainly for charging smart phones, uses DC-DC converter to convert the battery voltage (~3.3Volt) to the 5.0V for the USB output. This explains why people report using LPS for Regen or Recovery getting better results, compared to the power banks.
 
I have read your impression of the X-1. I have no doubt it is good. It is designed by the same guy of F-1 and with a newer faster chip. Compare to the WaveIO, it did not have the GMR isolaton chips on the F-1 and the WaveIO. I wanted to try WaveIO because it has the connections for the sample-rates LEDs (44.1k, 96k, etc). My Linux box dose not display anything (it is a headless console).

 

[ginetto61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rb2013 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

ALL digital connections will have issues of one sort or another - it's just now after how many decades after USB launched we are finally understanding how to address these issues. 

That is the key - it's like great analog - how long that took (40 yrs) to perfect!  I could write three pages on what was done there to address it's issues.  So don't get hung up on connectors and boxes.

If it works and sounds better - use it!   Trust your ears.  That's my motto.  All this theory stuff and 'test bench' measurements is fine - but when it comes to SQ may not help.

The issue with USB is not the cable (assuming you are using a great one) it is the conversion of a series of 'packets' into a digital stream.  Why the DDC is so very important.

In fact, after starting my Gustard U12 thread a year ago, and now this thread, rolling through all these various devices - I have realized how critical this part of the chain is. 

My system: Amps, DAC, Speakers, cables have remained pretty much the same through the process. 

And the unbeliveable increasing in performance from upgrading these little devices (and the many tweeks and gizmos) - has left me STUNNED~!

My system now at least ties and in many ways beats my old $30K analog rig! 

For a tiny fraction of the cost.  In fact, just one of my old cartridges, the Dynavector XV1-S cost multiples more then my whole DDC set-up!

The nice part of the way I have the power and data chains refined - I can just plug and play now - say to compare the F-1 to the NDK SD clocked X-1, or the upcoming DXIO Pro4a.  Easy peasey. 

Also remember the advent of the Schiit Wyrd and these other USB gizmos - is just in it's infancy.  I'm sure more and better to come - so Read my Chord DAVE thread post - $13000 newest sota DAC - USB and SPDIF  - that's it! 

I have posted now at least 4-5 brand new sota DAC's from the top audio designers - who only use USB and SPDIF  and laugh at all the amateur armchair audio engineers who think they can do better with their digital connection schemes!  And all the gymnastics to get i2s to work.

You see you're not the only one who can ramble!

Cheers

 

 
Thank you sincerely again for the very precious advice.   I agree completely on if it sounds good it is good principle. 
I understand that some accessories can give an additional increase in the sound quality,
In any case the DDC is a key element of the chain.  If it is wrong no reclocker can cure it ?  because my dac i guess reclocks.  
I do not know how sensitive to jitter it really is.  It is an Apogee Rosetta 200.
but i have another Hegel HD10 to try.
I would love to have the cash available for the amazing Chord Dave ... but it is out of my reach.  
If i can fix the DDC issue i could be quite confident that the digital source is fine and listen the different dacs at their best performance. 
I see that the boxed version of the F-1 has a quite different board ? and the blessed AES/EBU out also.
I will wait a little to see if anyone will take the plunge on the boxed version, If not i will take a F-1.
At least i will be sure that if the sound will be ugly the cause is not in the DDC.
Kind regards, gino  

 

[motberg]

(from superdad)  
The Intona does sound good with a REGEN after it though.  That's how I use it.  At least for another couple of months, when we will then release our uber-REGEN with, among a bunch of other enhancements, full galvanic isolation.  

right - but for reclocking I currently use a battery (I believe LiFePO4) powered Recovery after my Intona... (which sounds better in my near-field system than the Regen)...
the battery is to maintain the galvanic isolation... but as you mentioned in another post, a LPS would offer a different sound (possibly more dynamic), but isolated LPS currently are very expensive (ie: the Uptone PS)... My guess is that the Uptone guys studied all the latest stuff and are incorporating everything into one device which should surely be more cost effective than the current options I am using...
 
I previously also had good results with the small TeraDak LPS, and if I had a F-1 and no Intona, I would use one of those TeraDak things until the Uptone device arrives.. I remember an old comment that someone tested the noise on the 5V output of the TeraDak and it was quite good... much better than the 9V output. To me, the small 9V/5V TeraDak was as good as the iFi first gen iUSBPower I compared against.
Note I think the new iFi DC iPower cleaning device would not plug directly in that setup - you would need some kind of 5.5/2.1->USB-bypass adapter.
 
I hope Uptone offers the new PS as a separate PS only device.. 
 
I actually prefer my PPA 5V 3A LiFePO4 battery packs over the cheaper LPS's I have tried previously for my OS SSD and the PPA v2 USB card...
Of course, if anyone had mentioned I could tweak the sound via power supplies, USB cables, reclocking, OS tweaks, etc a few years ago.. I would have thought they were crazy...
 
I think the next question will be is how the Uptone-new-PS + F-1 compares to the Mutec....
also I think if the SU-1 offers some way to modify the power supply, that may be a similar killer device for folks who need different outputs..  

 

[rb2013]

  Hi rb2013,
 
I don't have those yet, and I use cheap USB cables - straightwire USB or Belkin Gold (now very cheap on amazon).
 
My thought was: "OK, the usb is bad, the computer is noisy. I would then use a 5 watt single board linux computer, feeding with a clean LPS, then I've cut the dirty source from the beginning." Now I understand that it is not true, because those single board computers (raspberry pi and similar) have on-board DC-DC converters. It is inevitable, for example, the CPU adjust their speed and voltage according to the demands. Thus even use a LPS, the USB output can be very noisy. Well, it is better (cleaner) than the USB from a laptop. In addition, I noticed differences between using the power-plug and using the battery in the laptop - battery is better.
 
This is off the topic. But now another interesting question: is a LPS or a Li-po battery bank better for my signle board computer? My answer is the LPS better. Why? I think because the li-po battery bank, which is mainly for charging smart phones, uses DC-DC converter to convert the battery voltage (~3.3Volt) to the 5.0V for the USB output. This explains why people report using LPS for Regen or Recovery getting better results, compared to the power banks.
 
I have read your impression of the X-1. I have no doubt it is good. It is designed by the same guy of F-1 and with a newer faster chip. Compare to the WaveIO, it did not have the GMR isolaton chips on the F-1 and the WaveIO. I wanted to try WaveIO because it has the connections for the sample-rates LEDs (44.1k, 96k, etc). My Linux box dose not display anything (it is a headless console).

Most Li Ion batteries are noisy in their own right - a good LPS would be a better solution.  The Hi-Fi Berry and RPi3 have some pretty nasty clocks - why reinvent the wheel.  Get a $450 WIN10 iCore 7 Haswell from costco, drop in some SATA filters, a CPU fan filter a high SRPP SMPS and the PPA V2 TXCO PCIe USB card running it's own PS.
 
My whole rig took 8hrs to set-up, WIN10 is a step up and very solid - so solid I can close Foobar - turn off my DCC LPS and switch DDC's switch back and reopen Foobar runs great!. 
 
Address the power to I'm thinking about getting a Hydra ZPM to try as a power source - but only 5VDC

Hydra ZPM - Ultra linear audio power supply

If one wants to fully squeeze the last drop of sound from the Hydra Z usb bridge, Hydra ZPM (Z Power Module) is the natural upgrade as external power supply. It’s main features are described below.

ULTRACAPACITOR POWER BANK The Hydra ZPM makes a step further, letting behind the Hydra X concept, which was battery powered. Instead, ZPM is using a ultracapacitor bank consisting of 2 x 310 Farads (1 Farad equals 1.000.000 uF) which will provide lower internal resistance and longer life and reliability, compared to a battery solution.

PROCESSOR CONTROLLED This charging of this huge capacitance is no trivial task, therefore is being done by specialized circuitry. Once capacitor bank is fully charged (it may take up to 4h first time!) , the output voltage will remain constant assuming that Hydra ZPM is left powered on.

LOW NOISE LINEAR The ZPM is designed entirely a linear design – meaning there is no switchmode technology inside. This way, all types of noise associated usually with the widespread non-linear power supplies is eliminated.

UPGRADABLE Aside the “digital” 5v output readily available, the Hydra ZPM can be equipped with a discrete ultralow noise analog regulators to provide symmetrical +/-12v.. +/-24 in order to supply analog devices.

 

1. Dimensions : 240 x 170 x 45mm
2. Weight : 1,7kg
3. Output digital : 5V / 1A max
4. Output noise (digital) : 5 uV RMS
5. Output analog (optional) : +/- 12v , 0.5A max.

 

[rb2013]

  right - but for reclocking I currently use a battery (I believe LiFePO4) powered Recovery after my Intona... (which sounds better in my near-field system than the Regen)...
the battery is to maintain the galvanic isolation... but as you mentioned in another post, a LPS would offer a different sound (possibly more dynamic), but isolated LPS currently are very expensive (ie: the Uptone PS)... My guess is that the Uptone guys studied all the latest stuff and are incorporating everything into one device which should surely be more cost effective than the current options I am using...
 
I previously also had good results with the small TeraDak LPS, and if I had a F-1 and no Intona, I would use one of those TeraDak things until the Uptone device arrives.. I remember an old comment that someone tested the noise on the 5V output of the TeraDak and it was quite good... much better than the 9V output. To me, the small 9V/5V TeraDak was as good as the iFi first gen iUSBPower I compared against.
Note I think the new iFi DC iPower cleaning device would not plug directly in that setup - you would need some kind of 5.5/2.1->USB-bypass adapter.
 
I hope Uptone offers the new PS as a separate PS only device.. 
 
I actually prefer my PPA 5V 3A LiFePO4 battery packs over the cheaper LPS's I have tried previously for my OS SSD and the PPA v2 USB card...
Of course, if anyone had mentioned I could tweak the sound via power supplies, USB cables, reclocking, OS tweaks, etc a few years ago.. I would have thought they were crazy...
 
I think the next question will be is how the Uptone-new-PS + F-1 compares to the Mutec....
also I think if the SU-1 offers some way to modify the power supply, that may be a similar killer device for folks who need different outputs..  

Yes I agree on all scores.   Uptone has a few new products coming - the Uber Regen incorporating better clocks and galvanic isolation and a new lower cost PS (then the JS-1).  I think Audiobyte is on the right track using those 'Super capacitors'  although I think Alex looked at doing a DIY project and found them difficult to work with.
 
I have a 2.5mm to USB adpater - have not tried it yet.  I did mod my X1 with Nichicon HW caps that did improve the performance.

 
Have not had a chance to do the same on my DC-30W.  Went the DC iPur route instead.
 
Let's just say the Recovery (which I slightly prefer to the Regen) using a Curious 200mm USB link - (and fed by a quality LPS) takes the F-1 to a whole new level.  When I added the PPA V2 card - I barely noticed any difference - same for powering it with a iPower.  Adding a iPur2 between the Recovery (and the Regen) and the F-1 was more goodness.  All easy and reversible.
 
Note I also use two Jitterbugs - one stock in an empty USB port and another I modded into a +5 VDC VBUS blocker (by clipping the 1 and 4 pins on the female A socket) this modded JB made a nice improvement in musicality and tone.  There is so much detail from the F-1, some poorly recorded albums can reveal some etch - with the modded JB that's gone.
 

 

 

[rb2013]

   
Thank you sincerely again for the very precious advice.   I agree completely on if it sounds good it is good principle. 
I understand that some accessories can give an additional increase in the sound quality,
In any case the DDC is a key element of the chain.  If it is wrong no reclocker can cure it ?  because my dac i guess reclocks.  
I do not know how sensitive to jitter it really is.  It is an Apogee Rosetta 200.
but i have another Hegel HD10 to try.
I would love to have the cash available for the amazing Chord Dave ... but it is out of my reach.  
If i can fix the DDC issue i could be quite confident that the digital source is fine and listen the different dacs at their best performance. 
I see that the boxed version of the F-1 has a quite different board ? and the blessed AES/EBU out also.
I will wait a little to see if anyone will take the plunge on the boxed version, If not i will take a F-1.
At least i will be sure that if the sound will be ugly the cause is not in the DDC.
Kind regards, gino  

All DACs are sensitive to jitter - of course some more then others.  And there are many forms of jitter - your Rosetta is at least 10 yr old technology - I doubt it has femto second TXCO clocks...so yes reclocking is a good idea.

 

[ginetto61]

  All DACs are sensitive to jitter - of course some more then others.  And there are many forms of jitter - your Rosetta is at least 10 yr old technology -
I doubt it has femto second TXCO clocks...so yes reclocking is a good idea.

 
Actually 10 years are a lot in this sector.  When i tried it befor playing with other things i remember that the sound was better with the reclocking inside the dac.  There is something here about the clock
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar06/articles/apogeerosetta.htm
 

 Apogee have always been praised for their stable, low-jitter clocks, and the latest Intelliclock design employs a dual-stage jitter-reduction technique that uses a FIFO buffer to isolate external, unstable clocks from the internal reference clock — a FIFO buffer (first-in, first-out) is a form of short-term memory. Incoming audio samples are loaded into the FIFO buffer using a 'write' clock derived from the incoming digital signal, and a high level of jitter and instability can be tolerated here, since stable timing isn't required. The audio data is then retrieved from the FIFO buffer using a very precise 'read' clock, which permits jitter-free D-A conversion. Of course, the FIFO buffer introduces a short storage delay, but this only amounts to a few samples, and is irrelevant compared to the normal conversion-filter delays. A similar approach is used to ensure that the A-D conversion is jitter free, even when using an external reference clock.

 
I bought it because a friend with a very good system tried it in his system and found it quite decent.   For sure it is mid-fi.
However i am following the Gustard family of dacs.  At least 2 models are very interesting.
What in your opinion could be a decent budget to buy a really serious dac ?
Thanks a lot again,   gino    

 

[rb2013]

   
Actually 10 years are a lot in this sector.  When i tried it befor playing with other things i remember that the sound was better with the reclocking inside the dac.  There is something here about the clock
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar06/articles/apogeerosetta.htm
 
 
I bought it because a friend with a very good system tried it in his system and found it quite decent.   For sure it is mid-fi.
However i am following the Gustard family of dacs.  At least 2 models are very interesting.
What in your opinion could be a decent budget to buy a really serious dac ?
Thanks a lot again,   gino    

Yes that was published in 2006 - a lot has changed since then