[rb2013]

  Ha!
 
That's awesome.
 
This thing looks really cool.....

I just downloaded the DANTE AES67 Ethernet ASIO driver - worked like the charm - came up in Foobar when I pulled in the ASIO.
 
Easy Peasy - ASIO direct over Ethernet!

 

[Albrecht]

That above quote was me: trying to explain in more layman terms, - why the (cheaper) non-LAN-Gigabit ones aren't the same thing, - and how one achieves much more benefits by connecting up these things in the LAN, and the "conversion" to and from TCP/IP back to USB provides better isolation/regen
 
For someone like me, - (who wants to stick with LMS/MiniMserver/Roon, - we need a NAA.
 
For someone like you, - who wants to stick with FooBar running on a PC, - these things are AMAZING.
 
My environment, (since 2003), has always been shared with my downstairs neighbor with a rather powerful MAC Server in the basement, a shared NAS in my place, - with several "endpoints" accessing: often at the same time. I am pretty well versed in Microsoft networking, but my downstairs is the one buying all the expensive "servers" in the basement.
 
John, explained much better of course: and his points were similar, where the LAN-Gigabit one is the RIGHT one.
 
Cheers,

 

[Albrecht]

so the "endpoint" is the F-1?
 
Perhaps I misunderstood, - but i thought that one needed a mindsp RJ45 to I2s installed in a DAC.

 

[rb2013]

   
I was talking that "keeping PC in basement" is nothing new with LanRover.
But...
Yes, squeezebox touch is old (2010), not designed for audiophile audio, just for consumer market but at the time was better then some hi-end cd transport.
Yes, sure, its clocks aren't the best (there were a few after market specialists to change it) but what's the difference with PC/MAC? 
Computers have even worse clocks and a lot more noise.
With Squeezebox you have galvanic isolation, you can put your computer far from listening room thanks to ethernet connection (even in different country). You can power it from LPS, you can use coax or usb to ouput digital to DAC. And have freedom and convenience that foobar, jriver, aurvana never can give you (the all squeezebox environment is spectacular, nothing compare).
The only (and only drawback) difference with PC is that you can't use special grade USB card like PPA or JCAT.
 
And back to (non)LAN Ethernet to USB extenders.
Cheap nonLAN Ethernet to USB extenders probably don't have galvanic isolation because it doesn't have to follow ethernet standard.
Real LAN Ethernet to USB extenders like Icron RG2304GE-LAN that support audio can give us galvanic isolation from PC but what more? I don't think at the receiver side there are top grade clocks, reclockers, etc. for sending perfect usb signal to DAC. Because these are not needed for keyboards, printers and so on. And why we do not have care about usb cable to DAC? Maybe LanRover will have better receiver implementation for hi-fi audio. We'll see.
Thanks to rb2013 we'll soon discover what is it worth

Well I guess that's the point - the TCP/IP protocol needs no clocks - just transformers.  Does this thing give the SQ improvements mentioned - will know tomorrow.
 
Well Galvanic Isolation is here already  - in a somewhat flawed fashion (not just my opinion read @Superdad's comments about the Intona on the Regen thread) - but new and better ones will be coming along.
 
Yes of course after the LAN converter - back to USB and all it's wonders and warts.
 
But really after today I see all this stuff as mute - as just eliminate the middleman (USB) and  and for that matter (MAYBE) all these USB gizmos!!!  As for your SB - as you say no Jriver, Foobar, Aurvana - that's a no go for me.
 
Direct AES67 Dante from your PC ethernet port straight to your DAC!  Use any player or PC/MAC/LINUS you please!  NO need for UpNP/DNLA!  Now right at this minute available! ASIO works like a charm!  LAN compatible!  WiFi compatible!  Of course the cheapest is the REDNET 3 at $899 - but that has a lot of pro audio features we don't need - so a 'consumer' audio DDC could be a cheap as an F-1  The RB2013RED!

 

[rb2013]

  so the "endpoint" is the F-1?
 
Perhaps I misunderstood, - but i thought that one needed a mindsp RJ45 to I2s installed in a DAC.

No - just a a DDC that takes AES67 DANTE Ethernet (straight from your existing PC ethernet port) and outputs SPDIF (or i2s if that's your poison).  See my post above...it's here NOW, and it will be getting much, much cheaper...very soon.
 
All you need is the $29 DANTE virtual sound card ASIO!  Just loaded on WIN7 machine works!  And is at home with the XMOS ASIO - just hop into Foobar and pick either.

 

[rb2013]

Too bad Amazon doesn't have the REDNET 3 or I would order one today...to give a try

 

[roger7]

 
All you need is the $29 DANTE virtual sound card ASIO!  Just loaded on WIN7 machine works!  And is at home with the XMOS ASIO - just hop into Foobar and pick either.

 
OK, but what do you use to "translate" dante protocol from ethernet into DAC digital signal?

 

[rb2013]

   
OK, but what do you use to "translate" dante protocol from ethernet to DAC digital singal?

See my post - REDNET 3 right now - but very, very soon we will see consumer audio versions (like Focusrite did on their USB stuff - now $299)
 
Remember AES67 is LAN approved and is the new Audio-IP std - (AES - stands for Audio Engineering Society) - see the stuff I posted on AES67 earlier today.
 
Does it sound better then USB?  You bet!  Master clock can be shared and then used from the LAN!  Read the technical stuff Focusrite has and I post a bunch on my 'Thunderbolt 3 for Audio' thread.

 

[rb2013]

  Could this be the ONE - Focusrite RedNet D16 AES - AES67 Ethernet to AES.  ASIO drivers - YES!
 
https://us.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-d16-aes
 
http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2015/11/4/aes67-what-is-it-and-why-should-you-care
 
 
 
$800 RedNet3 - Works with Dante virtual soundcard - Windows ASIO -
https://us.focusrite.com/ethernet-audio-interfaces/rednet-3
 
https://www.audinate.com/products/software/dante-virtual-soundcard
 
Dante virtual soundcard permanent license $29

repost

 

[rb2013]

Oh and AES67 is open architechure - no licensing I'm aware of - maybe some kind os certifcation.
 
Ethernet is also open I understand
 
You can bet the boys in China will be all over this especially after today! (I know you're watching this blog)
 
Maybe XMOS will develop a AES67 processor?
 
Cheers!

 

[Albrecht]

Hi,
 
OK, - I think that I got it, - finally. (and I do apologize for being slow off the mark).
 
The RedNet 3 box is like a receiver that has the dedicated audio ethernet-like rj-45 "receiver" of the signal, and that converts it to what looks like SPDIF outs for the DAC...   right?
 
 
There is also a PCI "NIC-like" card that goes into the PC. (Or, one can download a driver {Dante} to allow one to use one's current NIC, - built-in PC NIC card)?
 
 
What is a DDC? In my world it stands for Digital Display Channel....
 
Sorry for not getting this....

 

[riffer]

   
I was talking that "keeping PC in basement" is nothing new with LanRover.
But...
Yes, squeezebox touch is old (2010), not designed for audiophile audio, just for consumer market but at the time was better then some hi-end cd transport.
Yes, sure, its clocks aren't the best (there were a few after market specialists to change it) but what's the difference with PC/MAC? 
Computers have even worse clocks and a lot more noise.
With Squeezebox you have galvanic isolation, you can put your computer far from listening room thanks to ethernet connection (even in different country). You can power it from LPS, you can use coax or usb to ouput digital to DAC. And have freedom and convenience that foobar, jriver, aurvana never can give you (the all squeezebox environment is spectacular, nothing compare).
The only (and only drawback) difference with PC is that you can't use special grade USB card like PPA or JCAT.
 
And back to (non)LAN Ethernet to USB extenders.
Cheap nonLAN Ethernet to USB extenders probably don't have galvanic isolation because it doesn't have to follow ethernet standard.
Real LAN Ethernet to USB extenders like Icron RG2304GE-LAN that support audio can give us galvanic isolation from PC but what more? I don't think at the receiver side there are top grade clocks, reclockers, etc. for sending perfect usb signal to DAC. Because these are not needed for keyboards, printers and so on. And why we do not have care about usb cable to DAC? Maybe LanRover will have better receiver implementation for hi-fi audio. We'll see.
Thanks to rb2013 we'll soon discover what is it worth

 
I still use a Touch (Touch with EDO Mod>Gustard U12>Audio-gd Master 7 BNC).  Until I find a more user friendly interface, I will stick with it.
 
Stereophile measured the Touch and the Transporter and the Touch did quite well, but the Transporter had less noise, not surprising given the power supplies.  The Transporter was "Class A", and I believe the Touch was "Class C', for what it's worth.
 
I have to pull out my Stereophiles and see how the measurements compare to the Antipodes, a glorified Vortexbox.
 
Back on topic.  I'm waiting on the new interface.  I prefer my BNC input to the Master 7, but I would also like an I2s one for hi-res.  A nice case and linear PSU would be nice as well.  The Gustard is definitely the weak chain in my system (But is still quite nice).

 

[rb2013]

  Hi,
 
OK, - I think that I got it, - finally. (and I do apologize for being slow off the mark).
 
The RedNet 3 box is like a receiver that has the dedicated audio ethernet-like rj-45 "receiver" of the signal, and that converts it to what looks like SPDIF outs for the DAC...   right?
 
 
There is also a PCI "NIC-like" card that goes into the PC. (Or, one can download a driver {Dante} to allow one to use one's current NIC, - built-in PC NIC card)?
 
 
What is a DDC? In my world it stands for Digital Display Channel....
 
Sorry for not getting this....

Yes that's right now since AES67 is an open compatibility standard you should be able to use the DANTE ASIO with any other AES67 to AES/SPDIF converter.  Just input the IP address and away you go...

PCIe cards lower latency to ridiculus low levels while processing a very large number of tracks -32 or more.  For normal 2 channel audio the DVS should be fine.
 
 
PS Sorry DDC is for Digital Device Connector - formally refered to as a USB Bridge - but as you can see that is to narrow - with Thnuderbolt 2 and now AES67 Ethernet devices available.

 

[rb2013]

   
I still use a Touch (Touch with EDO Mod>Gustard U12>Audio-gd Master 7 BNC).  Until I find a more user friendly interface, I will stick with it.
 
Stereophile measured the Touch and the Transporter and the Touch did quite well, but the Transporter had less noise, not surprising given the power supplies.  The Transporter was "Class A", and I believe the Touch was "Class C', for what it's worth.
 
I have to pull out my Stereophiles and see how the measurements compare to the Antipodes, a glorified Vortexbox.
 
Back on topic.  I'm waiting on the new interface.  I prefer my BNC input to the Master 7, but I would also like an I2s one for hi-res.  A nice case and linear PSU would be nice as well.  The Gustard is definitely the weak chain in my system (But is still quite nice).

You are right Transporter for it's time was excellent and had a neat UI
 
But I found for large music collections too unwieldy

 

[rb2013]

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar13/articles/focusrite-rednet.htm
 

The Dante technology has already been adopted by a significant number of pro-audio manufacturers including Allen & Heath, DiGiCo, Dolby, Dynacord, Electrovoice, JoeCo, Lab.Gruppen, Lake Processing, Lectrosonics, MC2 Audio, NTP technology, Peavey, Symetrix, Telex, Turbosound, XTA, Yamaha and, of course, Focusrite. Significantly, Audinate have made it clear that Dante will be fully 'AVB-compliant' when this international standard is finally ratified by the IEEE, guaranteeing long-term future compatibility. 

Rather than developing their own proprietary format, though, Focusrite have — very sensibly, in my view — employed the thoroughly proven Dante interface developed by Audinate in Australia...a Gigabit network — which is the format Focusrite have adopted — can accommodate up to 512 bi-directional 48kHz channels (256 at 96kHz). The total system latency is dependent on the complexity of the network, but is fixed once the network is established and is typically between 150us and 500us — yes, that's microseconds! 

The third alternative — albeit with slightly greater latency akin, to a typical Firewire interface — is to use Audinate's own DVS software (short for 'Dante Virtual Soundcard') to handle audio data connected via the computer's own Ethernet port. A single DVS license comes free with each RedNet I/O device, and additional licenses can be purchased from Audinate.
Both the RedNet card and the DVS software are compatible with both Mac (OS 10.7 and later) and PC (Win 7 or later, 32- and 64-bit) platforms.

 

Network Audio Interface Technology

Most audio-over-Ethernet systems can be placed into one of three categories, defined by the complexity of the protocols employed. The simplest approach, called 'physical' or 'Layer 1' systems, include Aviom's A-net, the AES50 (superMAC) standard, and Riedel's Rocket system. These use standard Ethernet cabling and connectors but the bespoke 'media access control' protocols they use aren't compatible with conventional IP Ethernet systems. As a result, they require dedicated and completely independent network infrastructures which can only carry the audio data. In general, these systems are wired point-to-point, connecting a stage box directly to a console using a dedicated Cat-5 cable, for example.
Moving up a level in complexity and compatibility, 'Data Link' or 'Layer 2' systems wrap the digital audio data into standard Ethernet data packets, which means they can operate within standard Ethernet networks (although dedicated audio-only networks may still be required to guarantee stable latencies and data capacities). Layer 2 systems include the AES51 format, Allen & Heath's ACE, Calrec's Hydra system, CobraNet, Digigram's Ethersound, and Roland's REAC format. Data can be routed and distributed through standard Ethernet switches, if necessary, allowing greater transmission path lengths and more flexible installation options.
Full 'Network' or 'Layer 3' systems comply totally with all IP standards and so are completely compatible with all standard networking systems (although most cannot be used over the Internet). The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) is working on international standards for the transport of audio and video over Ethernet within the layer 3 protocol, under the 'AVB' group, and this will probably become the 'industry standard' format in the near future. Current Layer 3 systems include ALC NetworX's Ravenna, Audinate's Dante, QSC Audio's Q-LAN, and Telos Axia's LiveWire.

 RedNet 3, $1499.99;

Now down to $899, quiet a drop from the 2013 release price