[hozo]

Do XLR connectors and generic cable have enough insulation for the voltage swing of a KGSS amp?

After using RJ45 as an electrostatic headphone connector, I figured it's time for something less ghetto. The molex pins ayt999 suggested work great, but the fit is less than ideal.

I'm thinking about using two 3-pin XLR jacks/connectors for an ESH. Three conductors per driver is perfect for stator-bias-stator. Everything looks good except breakdown voltage (capacitance in the picofarads - not enough for HF rolloff...I think). I think cat6 is rated for 500Vmax but it seemed to work fine. However, I don't know if there are micro-sparks slowly breaking down the insulation. The other option is to use an audiocubes.com Stax extension cable. But at ~$100 a pop, it's not exactly economical for prototyping and testing different designs and drivers.

Thanks

 

[spritzer]

I would use a generic teflon insulated wire since they are rated at 600v and buy the stax plugs Kevin Gilmore suggests in one of the projects on Headwize. That is a cheap, plug and play option.

 

[nikongod]

the stax plug is a generic microphone conector.

 

[gsteinb88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod the stax plug is a generic microphone conector.

Quite correct, i own 2 from allied electronics, that are going in my KGSS. Check headwize for the part #'s.

 

[hozo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsteinb88 Quite correct, i own 2 from allied electronics, that are going in my KGSS. Check headwize for the part #'s.

Yes.

Female: Allied #719-4043
Male: Allied #719-4027

The male connector has 6 pins vs. 5 on the Stax Pro...an obscure connector versus the ubiquitous 3-pin XLR. Aside from size, are there any reasons for not using two 3-pin XLRs? I can add two XLR sockets to the KGSS.

It could be harder to couple ribbon cables to XLR connectors. Maybe this is topic for another discussion, but I don't understand the reason for ribbon cables. At the lengths we're dealing with (~6 ft), cable capacitance would be in the picofarads. With negligible cable resistance, high frequency rolloff wouldn't occur until several hundred nanofarads. Can the KGSS or any other ESH amp really have difficulty with 100 more picofarads?

 

[nikongod]

you can remove one of the pins from the 6-pin male if you take it apart.

check the voltage "specs" on the xlr's before you use them. probably not an issue, but it may be.

there is also the fact that some "newby" may plug his xlr'd hd-650's into your kgss because the conectors line up. some "not so newby" may even do it by mistake or thinking the amp was something else.

 

[hozo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod you can remove one of the pins from the 6-pin male if you take it apart.

Cool, I'll order two. Hopefully the sleeve around the pins is easy to remove.

Quote:

there is also the fact that some "newby" may plug his xlr'd hd-650's into your kgss because the conectors line up. some "not so newby" may even do it by mistake or thinking the amp was something else.

Ha, that would make an interesting meet. Who said 650s were laid back for Rock? You've never heard Rock until you've heard 650s balanced...with 1000Volts!

 

[Mimas]

I am planing on building DIY ESH either, and also thought about XLRs... Besides there are XLR with 5 pins...

Oh... If I only could lay my hands on something like those:
http://www.teledynereynolds.com/prod...pin/page02.asp

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimas I am planing on building DIY ESH either, and also thought about XLRs... Besides there are XLR with 5 pins... Oh... If I only could lay my hands on something like those: http://www.teledynereynolds.com/prod...pin/page02.asp

some people like to recable dynamics with teh 5-pin xlr's. i dont think highly of this practice (the 4-pin is better for a dynamic headphone for a few reasons) and now i think even less highly.

use a standard plug for electrostatics. either the stax 5-pin, or the senheiser he-60 plug, with an adapter so that you can plug it into a stax amp....

 

[hozo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod use a standard plug for electrostatics. either the stax 5-pin, or the senheiser he-60 plug, with an adapter so that you can plug it into a stax amp....

I'm not sure why a 5-pin stax would be considered "standard," much less the he-60 connector (which others ordered through Senn, unless it's some common plug which I'd gladly use). On the subject of 5-pin plugs, why not 6-pins? Stax used to use 6-pins. It's much more logical given that you need 3 wires per driver. With a 5-pin, you would have to connect two wires to one bias pin inside the plug.

 

[hembergler]

The 6th pin doesn't do anything besides making it impossible to plug it into a high bias output

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hozo I'm not sure why a 5-pin stax would be considered "standard," much less the he-60 connector (which others ordered through Senn, unless it's some common plug which I'd gladly use). On the subject of 5-pin plugs, why not 6-pins? Stax used to use 6-pins. It's much more logical given that you need 3 wires per driver. With a 5-pin, you would have to connect two wires to one bias pin inside the plug.

firstly: everyone conects 2 wires to one pin in the 5-pinned electrostatic plugs. asside from the old stax plugs (the 6-pins) everything runs on a 5-pin system. all of them use a shared pin for the bias voltage with no ill efects.

at present there are 3 and 1/2 standard electrostatic pluigs.
stax 5-pin.
senheisser "flat" he60 plug
senheiser 5-pin he90 plug
and the koss electrostatic.

im not really sure if the koss or the senheisers are the "half standard" but one of them is.

we will eliminate the koss plug because it is exceptionally rare to see it on anything but the koss amp, which sucks (the amp, and that nobody uses it aftermarket both suck.)

you now have the he90 and he 60 plugs to deal with. the adapters to convert the he60 headphone to a stax plug abound. it is no secret that the senheisser hev70 (i think i got it right, the energiser with the he60...) sucks. hook the he60 upto a srm717, or a srm006/006 and you will be pleased. and then you have the adapter with the stax end! plug the stax plug into whatever amp you want aftermarket, or oem stax....

then we come to the he90. this plug is a bit odd. the he90- uses it, and MANY aftrmarket amps come with the jack for it specfically. i would not personally recomend you to terminate a diy stat in this plug because you eliminate the stax amps from use without an adapter, and many are superb. most aftermarket amps that come with this plug will also come with the stax plug.

there is a reason to reinvent the wheel. when you see everyone trying to roll a triangular wheel (worse than a square) things must change. when you see everyone with round wheels with swiss berrings jsut get your own of the same and be happy.

 

[hozo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod there is a reason to reinvent the wheel. when you see everyone trying to roll a triangular wheel (worse than a square) things must change. when you see everyone with round wheels with swiss berrings jsut get your own of the same and be happy.

Or when that round wheel with swiss bearings cost a bundle and supplied by only one or two vendors on the other side of the mountain...

On soldering two wires to one pin, that can't be ideal. Will it have a noticeable effect? Most likely not, but are all aspects of high-end audio purely based on measurable effects? The RJ45 connector with molex pins didn't have any "ill effects" either.

Edit: hmm, now I think about it... maybe it is ideal to have 2 wires, 1 solder point, and 1 contact versus 2 wires, 2 solder points, and 2 contacts. I do remember the cramped space in small XLR connectors. Forget it, I'm going with hospital grade power outlets.

 

[Mimas]

Since I'm gonna build KGSS myself and mess with DIY electrostatic phones either i don't see any point in finding that rare mic connector which can accept STAX plugs. There is almost no current throught the connector itself, so I guess any will do unless pins are too close to each other...

 

[nikongod]

i line by line because you are awsome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hozo Or when that round wheel with swiss bearings cost a bundle and supplied by only one or two vendors on the other side of the mountain...

mail order is your friend unless you live overseas. the conector is indeed double the price, BUT it ensures greater compatability. simple as that.

Quote:

On soldering two wires to one pin, that can't be ideal. Will it have a noticeable effect? Most likely not, but are all aspects of high-end audio purely based on measurable effects? The RJ45 connector with molex pins didn't have any "ill effects" either.

if you crack open the stax amps, for the 6-pin conectors they solder a wire from the center pin to the outside pin for the bias voltage. you could argue that using 1 pin is better because the bias voltage is "fed" through an equal number of joints on both sides... a little extreme of an example though.

Quote:

Edit: hmm, now I think about it... maybe it is ideal to have 2 wires, 1 solder point, and 1 contact versus 2 wires, 2 solder points, and 2 contacts. I do remember the cramped space in small XLR connectors. Forget it, I'm going with hospital grade power outlets.

excepting the hospital grade plugs this is how EVERYBODY routes their bias voltages... 1 pin, 2 wires upto the headphones.
same thing for the grounded side of a dynamic hp (driven single ended) 2 hot connections, 1 ground shared.