[MarkParity]

Any specific reason to why you prefer bit-perfect?

Mainly because I can't do EQ setup effectively and I don't really think it achieves much for me, yes I can make more of this frequency or less of that etc but is it any better to me, so I switch on UAPP's bit perfect mode and leave things alone.

I have copied PEQ settings for a certain IEM or headphone in the past, yes it sounds different but is it better because the sound now better fits some curve or another? Certainly not to me anyway.

For me if a track or a transducer doesn't sound right then I don't listen to it, after a while my ears usually adjust to what's being presented anyway.

For example when I first got the MACH80 I had to PEQ that one for a few weeks but either it "burnt in" (unlikely) or again my ears adjusted to it as I really like it straight out of Gryphon or N6ii E01 now.

At the moment I have 2GO->2YU->BNC Coax->Hugo2->Beyerdynamic DT1990 on my head it sound great with no EQ.

To keep things on topic I do use Gryphon's XSpace and XBass II all the time but these are working in the analogue domain and they get my thumbs up .

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Mainly because I can't do EQ setup effectively and I don't really think it achieves much for me, yes I can make more of this frequency or less of that etc but is it any better to me, so I switch on UAPP's bit perfect mode and leave things alone.

I have copied PEQ settings for a certain IEM or headphone in the past, yes it sounds different but is it better because the sound now better fits some curve or another? Certainly not to me anyway.

For me if a track or a transducer doesn't sound right then I don't listen to it, after a while my ears usually adjust to what's being presented anyway.

For example when I first got the MACH80 I had to PEQ that one for a few weeks but either it "burnt in" (unlikely) or again my ears adjusted to it as I really like it straight out of Gryphon or N6ii E01 now.

At the moment I have 2GO->2YU->BNC Coax->Hugo2->Beyerdynamic DT1990 on my head it sound great with no EQ.

To keep things on topic I do use Gryphon's XSpace and XBass II all the time but these are working in the analogue domain and they get my thumbs up .

Very nice response!

I'm more of "buy your headphones with a tuning you like and don't touch it" kind of guy, but to each their own.

Both mentalities have their specific uses and benefits/drawbacks.

 

[zhuhang]

Can I ask what sources you’re using to verify DSD 24M playback?

just use any 48k source (or any integer multiples of it: 96k, 192k) and upsample it to DSD512/48, using foobar + DSDProcessor as described in my original post.

reference back to my original post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xdsd-gryphon-birth-of-a-‘head-fi’-legend.960502/post-17066318

-----

Since this "desktop mode" has been the most wanted feature for the past few pages, hope it gets to top priority and eventually be implemented!

 

[electronicsdesign]

I agree with both @MarkParity and @Sebastien Chiu !
In reality, of course, doing EQ in DSP is a compromise: one is going to loose a bit of digital resolution, while gaining a more neutral sound.
And then yes, most headphones can be listened to without doing any EQ, but some will benefit a lot more than others.

My Oppo PM-3 is a very good example of a pair that sounds much better with EQ: bass is overly emphasized and lower treble is a bit muffled without it.
In my case, the benefits outweigh the downsides in this case, so I choose to do it. The xBass feature of the Gryphon doesn't help too much in this
particular case, as I need to reduce bass not amplify it and the presence boost is too high compared to its deficiency there.

On the other hand, a pair like AudioTechnica MSR7b or Senheiser HD600 will sound very good without any EQ. In these 2 cases, the Gryphon's
bass boost can work well, since both have some deficiency there. Doing it in the analog domain is to be preffered obviously.
Same would be true for the Beyerdynamic DT1990Pro @MarkParity mentioned: since they are marketed as studio reference headphones, I expect them to
be neutral (or close to it) without any EQ, as in that environment neutrality is of utmost importance for mixing and mastering.

As for me, probably unlike the majority of iFi users, I like neutral or "clinical" sound as some call it. Hence my preference for the Harman curve,
which to my ears sounds very neutral. Then even with this target curve, headphones and IEMs will still sound different due to different driver configurations,
open-back or closed-back, tips/cushions used and many other factors. Hence why I like to have many headphones and IEMs, despite I could
choose just one or two that have a frequency response very close to the Harman curve.

 

[zhuhang]

I agree with both @MarkParity and Sebastien Chiu !
In reality, of course, doing EQ in DSP is a compromise: one is going to loose a bit of digital resolution, while gaining a more neutral sound.
And then yes, most headphones can be listened to without doing any EQ, but some will benefit a lot more than others.

My Oppo PM-3 is a very good example of a pair that sounds much better with EQ: bass is overly emphasized and lower treble is a bit muffled without it.
In my case, the benefits outweigh the downsides in this case, so I choose to do it. The xBass feature of the Gryphon doesn't help too much in this
particular case, as I need to reduce bass not amplify it and the presence boost is too high compared to its deficiency there.

On the other hand, a pair like AudioTechnica MSR7b or Senheiser HD600 will sound very good without any EQ. In these 2 cases, the Gryphon's
bass boost can work well, since both have some deficiency there. Doing it in the analog domain is to be preffered obviously.
Same would be true for the Beyerdynamic DT1990Pro @MarkParity mentioned: since they are marketed as studio reference headphones, I expect them to
be neutral (or close to it) without any EQ, as in that environment neutrality is of utmost importance for mixing and mastering.

As for me, probably unlike the majority of iFi users, I like neutral or "clinical" sound as some call it. Hence my preference for the Harman curve,
which to my ears sounds very neutral. Then even with this target curve, headphones and IEMs will still sound different due to different driver configurations,
open-back or closed-back, tips/cushions used and many other factors. Hence why I like to have many headphones and IEMs, despite I could
choose just one or two that have a frequency response very close to the Harman curve.

Wait.. Is iFi planning to add DSP as optional feature through software update? 10-band GEQ and PEQ will make Gryphon the only recommendation that makes senss.

 

[ColSaulTigh]

Wait.. Is iFi planning to add DSP as optional feature through software update? 10-band GEQ and PEQ will make Gryphon the only recommendation that makes senss.

PEQ would be an AWESOME feature!!!

 

[electronicsdesign]

@zhuhang I would certainly like to see an EQ feature in the Gryphon controlled through the GAIA app, said this before.
Would prefer that since Android PowerampEQ does not work with music played on the browser for example. Only Youtube and Tidal.
On Windows it's less problematic, but even then using Exclusive Mode bypasses any EQ that I do in EqualizerAPO.
Would certainly like to use both Exclusive Mode and EQ at the same time.

 

[camoto]

I wanted to follow up again on my issue:

First, I was never able to get the Amazon seller to take action. Endless back and forth, they constantly would say they are working on an RMA and they needed 3-4 business days to resolve. Because this was all happening through the Amazon seller message app, they would say things like "your request has been forwarded to the department that handles this" and nothing would ever move.

One day out of boredom, I ended up playing around with a few things, one of which was connecting the device to a different USB port on my mac. The problem strangely did not exist. After swapping around a few things I noticed the specification on the thunderbolt hub port was only 1.5A output which my Gryphon was plugged into. The iFi spec says that the Gryphon can pull 1.9A. So I re-opened my case asking if I should still pursue my return. I was abruptly told that my assessment was incorrect and my case was closed again.

The next day I decided to go a little deeper and found that when plugged directly into my mac, various cables yielded various results. For example:

1. Using Anker USB-C 643 (100W) cable, problem exists
2. Using cable-matters TB3 cable, problem does not exist
3. Using Apple 100W USB-c charging cable, problem does not exist
4. Using any TB4 cable I have, problem does not exist
5. Using a 60W rated “JSAux” brand cable, problem exists
6. Using Anker Powerline+, 60W USB-C 2.0 cable, problem exists

I reopened my case again, and provided this info. I asked again if the belief was still that the device was defective. I got a very short response saying that I shouldn't use those cables or that port and my case was again closed.

So in the end, I feel like I have isolated the issue-- if the Gryphon is set to USB Dual Port Charge, and the demand rises above a certain threshold (for me goes into Turbo Mode) the connection is lost. I still don't have a clear answer on if this is a bug with the device that I have or if this is all of them. At this point I have wasted so much time getting to an answer and I'm beyond frustrated with iFi support and how they kept just closing the case not even trying to understand the problem. I wish I could be happier about having found a solution for the problem but all of this back and forth really casts a shadow on my customer experience.

I will again advice against buying any iFi device from Amazon unless it's from iFi's storefront.

 

[MarkParity]

I agree with both @MarkParity and @Sebastien Chiu !
In reality, of course, doing EQ in DSP is a compromise: one is going to loose a bit of digital resolution, while gaining a more neutral sound.
And then yes, most headphones can be listened to without doing any EQ, but some will benefit a lot more than others.

My Oppo PM-3 is a very good example of a pair that sounds much better with EQ: bass is overly emphasized and lower treble is a bit muffled without it.
In my case, the benefits outweigh the downsides in this case, so I choose to do it. The xBass feature of the Gryphon doesn't help too much in this
particular case, as I need to reduce bass not amplify it and the presence boost is too high compared to its deficiency there.

On the other hand, a pair like AudioTechnica MSR7b or Senheiser HD600 will sound very good without any EQ. In these 2 cases, the Gryphon's
bass boost can work well, since both have some deficiency there. Doing it in the analog domain is to be preffered obviously.
Same would be true for the Beyerdynamic DT1990Pro @MarkParity mentioned: since they are marketed as studio reference headphones, I expect them to
be neutral (or close to it) without any EQ, as in that environment neutrality is of utmost importance for mixing and mastering.

As for me, probably unlike the majority of iFi users, I like neutral or "clinical" sound as some call it. Hence my preference for the Harman curve,
which to my ears sounds very neutral. Then even with this target curve, headphones and IEMs will still sound different due to different driver configurations,
open-back or closed-back, tips/cushions used and many other factors. Hence why I like to have many headphones and IEMs, despite I could
choose just one or two that have a frequency response very close to the Harman curve.

I have the PM-3 too could you please share your EQ settings for "review". Perhaps I may change my opinion on EQ.

Thank you.

 

[electronicsdesign]

Of course. There are 2 EQs that I have tried so far, one based on referenceaudioanalyzer's measurements (it's in the Equalizer APOs database) and second based on
Amir's from audiosciencereview measurements.

1. Referenceaudioanalyzer
Preamp gain: -6.1dB
22Hz -3.2dB Q1.95
44Hz 1.2dB Q4.11
126Hz -6.1dB Q1.11
210Hz -1.8dB Q2.72
403Hz 3.1dB Q3.1
1284Hz 1.6dB Q1.58
1976Hz -1.5dB Q3.86
2601Hz -4.7dB Q2.73
4420Hz 6.1dB Q2
11339Hz 3.8dB Q0.93

2. Audiosciencereview (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../oppo-pm3-review-closed-back-headphone.25357/)
Preamp gain: -4dB
100Hz -6dB Q2
132Hz -3.5dB Q1
3300Hz 4dB Q2
7240Hz -5dB Q4

This second one does not adress the dip at 11kHz, as according to Amir (a video about psychoacoustics) our ear averages out significantly at those frequencies
and such narrow dips at high frequnecies we won't actually hear. I tend to agree with him based on listening.

The second one has the advantage of having less digital attenuation and it's much simpler overall (so easy to put on an Android app).
To my ears both sound signficantly better than no EQ, however it is to be mentioned that cushions used will also play a role.
For example, I found multiple EQs for different cushions in Equalizer APO (original, aliexpress one, etc.). While I do not expect these to change the
sound dramatically, there will be differences for sure. I still have the original cushions on my Oppo PM-3 limited edition which are in mint condition.

What I did not like initially was an impression of mudiness/muffled sound, which was solved by adding some gain on 3.3kHz.
It also sounded a bit bright, that being solved by reducing the 7.24kHz.
The bass was not the main problem to me, but depending on what I listen to, it is indeed too boomy. Depending on preference, that 6dB attenuation
at 100Hz can be changed to a smaller one if you want more bass. Same with the one at 132Hz. Addtionally, you can add the 403Hz boost from the
first one. So at the end of day you can customize it more to your preference, but to me those 2 are pretty damn good as they are.
Without EQ, many dynamic driver headphones sound better than this pair. It is only with EQ that they shine at their true value in my opinion.

Of course, it is to be noted that if you want to compare the no-EQ with EQ, you must adjust the volumes to be the same (+6.1dB on the first, +4dB on second),
otherwise you can have the impression the EQ sounds worse because it's less loud.

 

[MarkParity]

Thanks @electronicsdesign I will give it a try ASAP.

 

[Feischmaker]

Edited; nevermind, i found my answer

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Hi Head-Fi! I felt it would be good timing to notify you of this update since this is one of the major threads I have supported, so you are not left in the dark.

I will be wrapping up with team iFi at the end of the month and joining the team at Headphones.com as their Head of Community. I will be responsible for leading our relationships with all the forums, setting up trade shows like CanJam, and for running our social platforms. It's the next logical step for my career and was an opportunity I could not turn down.

As iFi is a brand we deal in, I will still be around and supporting iFi threads occasionally - just not as often since it's not my main priority anymore.

It's been an incredibly positive experience working with you all, and I've learned so many thanks to you all over the past two years! I'm very grateful for the now-friends I have met through these threads and my interactions with the community here.

Don't be a stranger, and I'll see you around! Things will be business as normal for the rest of this month - I start full-time with headphones.com in September.

All the best,

-Seb

 

[Zachik]

Congrats Seb!!!

 

[Lightspeed12]

All the best in your new career Seb.
Hope ifi continue helping its customers on head-fi forums with improving their products.