[3X0]

The X5 line-out is widely considered to be a faulty point of the X5. As a player, the X5 should not be dismissed for only this component. From my reading and thorough personal experience I have concluded that while the X5 line-out is flawed, it is not universally terrible.

Since purchasing the X5, I have tested the line-out versus the headphone-out in three different scenarios.

1. Into an AUX input.
2. Plugged into a set of harman/kardon computer speakers.
3. Plugged into an amp (Go-Vibe V5) using different headphones.

From the list, I believe it is apparent that the former two instances are rather similar. In either case, the output device is self-powered and thus draws very little current from the X5's line-out. I am not proficient in electric circuitry, so it would be impossible for me to expatiate this thoroughly. If I were to take a stab in the dark, I'd say that when connected to powered output devices, the resultant connection draws fairly low current and is also of relatively low overall impedance between source and output.

EDIT: In short, the line-out through 1 and 2 are frankly bad. They have the premature bass roll-off that noticeably affects the output.

However, in the latter case, the line-out sounds fine. It sounds no worse than the headphone-out in any aspect. Users that have used the X5's line-out (with an expensive dock) to an amplifier and headphones have often testified the same result. The bass is there, and there is no appreciable roll-off. I'm assuming that the amp connection provides higher overall impedance and thereby circumvents the normal recession in the lower registers.

A helpful poster earlier had ascribed the X5's line-out problems with a capacitor of too small a size. I believe that a similar problem plagued the 4G iPods, from some archival reading. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that the iPod 4G also suffered from patently insufficient bass when paired with low-impedance headphones. Regardless, I recall a certain generation of iPod afflicted with these problems.

Now, whether the line-out sounds perceptibly different is for you to decide. With even the stock Cowon mini-to-mini cable I noticed a tiny change in overall resolution and soundstage, which may grow with better interconnect components. Nevertheless, the X5 sounds great with the Go-Vibe through the line-out and definitely no worse than through the headphone-out.

I would suggest those that are deterred from purchasing the X5 for its alleged line-out insufficiencies reconsider their withdrawal. It's a pretty misunderstood and convoluted topic that has been open to quite a bit of controversy in the past (and even as of late) and I feel it's best to debunk this infamous anomaly.

 

[zip22]

your thesaurus seems to have been put to good use. the fact of the matter is, many people report the bass roll off through the line out. your post does nothing but throw another chip into the 'nay' side. it does not debunk anything.

 

[superpiper]

I would agree with a certain article i read recently, that these thing have (technical) life span of less than 12 months.

Compared to the zune/zen/ipod, the competition has moved on.

HP SQ is really nice with the X5, but if you really want to spend **** loads of cash on one, i would wait for the new version (if any)

It really is getting old, and whilst SQ is number one to some, the rest of the unit should be upto scratch.

Line out sucks, big time.
I noticed it right away on my Technics Amp.
Dreadfull on my car stereo.

Tim.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif the fact of the matter is, many people report the bass roll off through the line out. your post does nothing but throw another chip into the 'nay' side. it does not debunk anything.

Yet how come there are people that have used the line-out of the X5 with an amp that report no problems? Are these people to be blatantly ignored? You've only demonstrated that the "bass roll-off people" are more vocal in their dismay, and that does by no means served as definitive proof of such an anomaly. Have you had an experience with the X5 and its line-out, zip22? Gentleman, I implore you to appeal to your logic and attempt to reason such a disparity rather than to suppress an attempt to explain it!

EDIT: I'm sorry if my original post was a bit misleading. I attempted equity on both sides (line out sucks, line out doesn't suck), and failed to directly mention that in scenarios 1 and 2, the line-out is indeed terrible. In scenario 3, the line out is fine.

Consider the logical side of the contention (which many seem to gloss over). I mean, if there's an overly small capacitor, from what knowledge I've gleaned, it functions like a high-pass filter in low-impedance circuitry.

Result? Missing bass.

When higher-impedance components are introduced into the circuit, the capacitor becomes less of a problem.

I'd honestly appreciate reasoning contradicting this as it would definitely enlighten me on understanding this better. That's a goal of mine: to comprehend this line-out problem that seems difficult to grasp.

Why should the discussion of this issue be limited to subjectivity rather than some attempted breakdown of the causes? It would be helpful if it made sense rather than stayed a mystery or a definite "yech."

I'll be acquiring a line-in resistor pretty soon to test this out further on several output devices.

(And I apologize if I'm coming off as a bit didactic. It's midterms.)

 

[wolfen68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nevertheless, the X5 sounds great with the Go-Vibe through the line-out and definitely no worse than through the headphone-out.

I personally preferred to amp the head-out...but if you think the two sound the same...that's great.

However, the point I would make is that if in your case, the lineout sounds no worse, and I presume no better than the head-out, why not ditch the sub-pack and enjoy the equivalent head-out without the extra hassle?

 

[taran]

ok so basically the only way i would get better sound out of the line out is to use higher impedience headphones?

 

[zip22]

as you stated, there are aparently people on both sides of the coin. i have read much much more from people who say that there is bass rolloff. i have also seen the results of multiple rmaa tests posted and listened to bangraman's mp3s from both the headphone out and the lineout. i have not experienced the device itself.

my post was meant to point out that your post is by no means definitive and does not debunk anything. it is very easy to find a number of threads on this topic with many contributors mentioning the bass rolloff. it is a well known issue.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif my post was meant to point out that your post is by no means definitive and does not debunk anything. it is very easy to find a number of threads on this topic with many contributors mentioning the bass rolloff. it is a well known issue.

The question mark in the thread title was precisely used to note that this thread sought answers on the subject. Since there is disparity between experiences and doubtlessly difference in method.

Interesting how you mention it being a well-known issue, as that is somewhat paradoxical. The issue is often brought up, yes, but the actual causes of it are rarely sufficiently discussed.

 

[zip22]

that is not a paradox. forums have many posts discussing the roll off. no one needs to know why it has bass roll off, they just know amping from the headphone is a fine solution. why investigate the problem when there is a 3.5mm solution staring you in the face? in addition, the headphone out is easier and less cumbersome.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif that is not a paradox. forums have many posts discussing the roll off. no one needs to know why it has bass roll off, they just know amping from the headphone is a fine solution. why investigate the problem when there is a 3.5mm solution staring you in the face? in addition, the headphone out is easier and less cumbersome.

Yeah it is, but that's semantics and I guess it doesn't matter.

It's worth pursuing if there's a possibility of gains being gleaned from it. It's also tiring to hear many automatically dismiss the X5 for having a "crappy line-out" when this is not universally the case. I don't think it's really that useless to learn about it.

Why are you so averse to this topic being explained? As far as I can tell this discussion shouldn't really pertain to or concern you if you don't care about it (you don't have an X5, you don't want an X5, you don't care much for the X5). Just wondering..

 

[gundam91]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The X5 line-out is widely considered to be a faulty point of the X5. As a player, the X5 should not be dismissed for only this component.

I've done a lot of reading about this player in the past few weeks. How come I got a different impression than you? I think people were just pointing out that the line-out is one weakness of the player. I did not get the impression that people were dismissing the X5 as a player ENTIRELY just because of this weakness.

As regards to people's opinions/observations about the bass roll-off. Maybe it is simply because each listener uses a different reference as to what the "right" sound is. As sound is so subjective, you will never get an "unanimous" decision on anything. I've got people telling me all the time that my system is too bright, too soft, not enough bass, too much bass, soundstage too small, soundstage too big, etc.

 

[Sparky191]

Even accepting you are right about impedance I think the point is...

If (lineout >> subpack >> amp) sounds the same as (earphone >> amp)

Why bother with the subpack?

 

[Sparky191]

...

 

[Malakei]

I agree with 3xo.

Although im sure much of the negative banter this thread is recieving is because his approach to the topic seems snobish in nature simply because he states his opinion in.. well an educated manner and with proper grammar and yes, perhaps "use of a thesaurus". But theres alot of you other that could do with a good thesaurus reading because as like he said, too many people just state their opinions as "such and such has a crappy line out" without ever explaining why its crappy or wether they've researched an explaination on either how to fix it, wether the company will be releasing a new model with the flaw fixed and so forth. Just respond to the thread if you have positive feedback or resolution for the guy. Stop flamin' his post just because you want to prove something. I for one will be looking into this with the company to hopefully get somewhere with this issue as im ALWAYS out to find "Crainial Bliss" as his quote to elequantly puts it.

Cheers, I've got that quote on my MSN now , ill let you know what i hear from Cowon.

 

[Malakei]

Oh and with the responses regarding people not considering the x5 purely based on the line out rumor. I know many people who are. If your looking for the best SQ out there and the one player in America that plays FLAC has a problem with its line out. I would be waiting for the problem to be fixed before I blew a whole wad of cash on it, wouldn't you? Maybe not, some people just have too much money and not enough time I suppose.