[tmann]

So the Karma's are gone (after I decided to take a chance on one), so it was back to the drawing board. After some more research I am focusing in on the Cowan X5 or Creative Zen Touch (or Sleek) at the moment. I was also considering the Dell DJ but from what I am reading it looks like it is lacking in the SQ dept. compared to the other players.

By far the most important factor to me is Sound Quality (including gaps - the smaller the better, obviously); also cost, battery life and (portable) size are important. I am new to digital audio, so I could live with folder navigation (vs. tags) since I am just starting to burn my CDs, and the vast majority of my listening will be to albums instead of dowloaded songs (which is why I don't like gaps). I am using EAC Lame VBR. Video capability is a non-issue. A radio would be nice but is not a deal-breaker.

It looks like the Touch/Sleek and X5 have the best reports in the sound quality department. Can anyone give a comparison? (I will be using Senn PX-200s, and I am looking into getting a pair of IEMs - probably Waveone UM-1. Stock earbud quality is not relevant).

So far I have (please let me know if something is wrong):

Battery Life - X5 ~14 hrs; Sleek ~ 18; Touch ~24; X5L >30 (!)

Size - Touch - a bit larger than the others; Sleek - smaller; X5/X5L - thin

Current Cost (need to research this some more) - X5L (30 gigs) > X5 (30 gigs) > Touch (40 gigs) = Sleek (20 gigs) > Touch (20 gigs)

Interface - X5(L) Joystick better than touchpad on the Creatives, but is it durable???

Extras: External volume buttons -Touch, X5 (joystick); Radio - X5 and Sleek (Touch - remote); (crappy) video - X5.


SOUND QUALITY - _________________

EQ - _______________________________

GAPS (esp MP3) - __________________


Any comments are welcome. Thanks for any help!! (I've used search but didn't see much comparing the SQ on these players. I spent some time on this post so hopefully it will pay off).

 

[titaniumx3]

Comparing the X5 to the Zen Touch

Sound Quality ~ Without any EQ effects, they sound virtually the same, but with the Zen Touch the midrange seemed a bit more upfront with a slight emphasis in the lower mids which had the effect of giving the sound more impact and forwardness. Overall I'd say the sound was more refined on the Zen Touch in comparision to the X5, but only by a very small margin. Also certain headphones sounded better on the X5 than the Zen Touch and vice versa.

EQ ~ The X5 has a 5-band EQ along with a bunch of other curious sound effects (or Jet Effects as they're called). I found they all ended up reducing the overall sound quality, though the "BBE" was useful with certain poorly recorded music. The 5-band EQ is decent, but nothing special. The bass doesn't distort if you push the bars really high, but in return you get "one note" style bass (which I hate). Also the highs can start to sound grainy if the treble frequency bars are put up too high. It OK for a bit of treble/bass boost but too much and it just spoils the sound.

The Zen Touch only has a 4-band EQ. The main problem with the Zen Touch is that the EQ seems to sound different with the various firmware versions. I found the original firmware sounds best. In comparision to the X5 the EQ causes less harshness/graininess in the treble frequencies, but the bass frequencies distort too easily if put up too high.

Overall I'd say the X5 is better in terms of EQ options but in both cases using good, balanced headphones/earphones with no EQ is the best option.

Gaps ~ For mp3 both are not truly gapless, but the gaps are very small with the Zen Touch taking a slight lead. On the X5 the gaps are biggest when using OGG files and smallest with WAV files.

 

[tmann]

Thanks!!!! Much appreciated. Looks like it's a matter of size/capacity/cost and whether I think I need a radio. 40g w/24 hr battery life, great sound and external dedicated volume buttons for around $200 makes the Touch a damn good deal if you can live with the size. (then again the X5 looks pretty nice, and easier on the pocket (literally).

I saw a post on the iaudiophile board where someone recorded a sample of a seemless track change (on the album) on the X5 in every format, so you could here the gaps. That was great - if there was an example of that for every player that would be very helpful.

So, for mp3s, are the gaps on the Touch smaller than the X5?? Because on the X5 mp3 had a gap less than 1/10 sec., and based on the sample I thought I could live w/it. If they are even less than that on the Touch that would be impressive. (the gaps w/OGG are unacceptable and make that format more or less 'not supported', IMO)

Anyone know if the Sleek has the same sound/EQ/gaps as the Touch??

 

[titaniumx3]

Well the gaps on the Zen Touch (for mp3s) are very small, like with the X5, maybe a bit smaller on the Touch, though I haven't tested this properely.

Too be honest I don't really care about the whole gap issue, even with albums that have seamless track transitions, it just doesn't bother me that much. Also, you'll be missing alot if you refuse to use OGG on the X5. I use Q5 quality settings which gives files with average bitrates of about 150kbps, yet to my ears they sound virtually the same as the original CD.

I think the Sleek has a 5-band EQ instead of a 4-band. Personally I'd either go for the X5, iPod 5G or the Creative Zen Vision:M.