[marscay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz @TooNice: Actually pretty much any decent external DAC will sound better than the X-Fi because Creative's target consumer group is not audiophiles but gamers, so the X-Fi is more geared toward gaming, not music listening.

once again LOL

elite pro uses same DAC as the emu1212 card and also much better opamps than the other x-fi models which is one reason it costs alot more.

it's the only model that combines a great gaming and good musical card in 1.

 

[marscay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 Yeah, well...I happen to prefer my old model receiver http://www.kenwood.co.jp/i/products/...krfv6030d.html to the elite pro. I also prefer it to my 0404 and to my philips cd-player. Although it gets worse rmaa-results than either of those soundcards the sound is imho better in all areas. Ridiculous. Maybe it's just engineered to be euphonic or something, I don't know.

my yamaha amp isn't overly musical but does a great job with movies.

but everyone has a different ear.

 

[humanflyz]

@marscay:

Again, those were my personal opinions based on my subjective listening impressions. I didn't say that the X-Fi is bad; I just said that I prefer DACs with technically inferior specs over the X-Fi. I simply prefer not to use the X-Fi as my source of music reproduction. Rather, I'd use the X-Fi as a gaming only soundcard while letting the DAC do most of the work. And for that purpose, the Elite Pro doesn't really offer anything worthwhile for me since I do not care about the breakout box or the DAC, since I'm using an external one.

 

[marscay]

have you listened to the elite pro model?

i'm not saying everyone should rush out and buy it......everyone has different needs......but i wasn't aware if you knew the top model was technically superior to the others.

 

[TooNice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz And for that purpose, the Elite Pro doesn't really offer anything worthwhile for me since I do not care about the breakout box or the DAC, since I'm using an external one.

Ah, but what if someone doesnt have an external DAC right now? The Elite Pro is often thought of as being overpriced. Yet is it possible to get better value with a low end X-Fi + external DAC combination?

 

[MikeW]

A few points to make -- the reason X-Fi sounds much better then Audigy 2, is not because of your superior OP-Amps on your Elite pro, while that has somthing to do with it, the bigger issue is the far superior resampling engine that all X-fi's sport. So even Extreme Music sounds much better then Audigy 2 for music. Also the reason the Elite Pro is so much more expensive dosent really have much to do with the opamps and dac chips which are maybe 2 bucks more expensive then what is in the extreme music, it's just because creative is exploiting the premium product and overpricing. All this talk of Microphone support is kind of moot in my opinion ~ USB mics are quite capable. Unless your going to be singing into the thing or somthing and profesionally recording a USB mic will do everything you need, probably better then most standard pc mic's at that, there's a 30$ logitech plug and play, USB mic's that just great. Also the reason "people don't like x-fi for music" has little to do with it's actual performance and everything to do with all the hate that creative tech gets, which is not nessarily undue, but people are biased just because it says creative on it.

edit: i also prefer my "Technically inferior" source (Dialogue II) to the analog output of my Xtreme Music ~~ YMMV. Just because somthing is inferior specwise dosent mean it won't have a more enjoyable sound signature, all non os dac's are greatly inferior to oversampling dacs on paper, but in reality their sound signature is quite enjoyable for those who like it.

 

[TooNice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW Also the reason the Elite Pro is so much more expensive dosent really have much to do with the opamps and dac chips which are maybe 2 bucks more expensive then what is in the extreme music, it's just because creative is exploiting the premium product and overpricing.

.. and a few more bucks for the breakout box I suppose.

Still, I am not interested in how much profit Creative gets for each card. I am not keen on some of their business practices, but until something else can compete with it on equal footing (i.e. something better than Creative card with the same gaming support), I am pretty much stuck with them.
I am pretty sure that -most- audiophile products carry a significant premium anyway.

What I would be interested to know however, is whether they overprice their product so much that you *can* get better value through an alternative combination. Basically, if there isn't a $250 DAC that outperforms the Elite Pro, then all points are moot... for my needs (good music performance + good gaming support). I wouldn't even be able to call it overpriced, since it would be the price that the market must pay for that level of performance.

 

[Sergey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooNice .. and a few more bucks for the breakout box I suppose. Still, I am not interested in how much profit Creative gets for each card. I am not keen on some of their business practices, but until something else can compete with it on equal footing (i.e. something better than Creative card with the same gaming support), I am pretty much stuck with them. I am pretty sure that -most- audiophile products carry a significant premium anyway. What I would be interested to know however, is whether they overprice their product so much that you *can* get better value through an alternative combination. Basically, if there isn't a $250 DAC that outperforms the Elite Pro, then all points are moot... for my needs (good music performance + good gaming support). I wouldn't even be able to call it overpriced, since it would be the price that the market must pay for that level of performance.

Agree, Some of the people just hate Creative for drivers or overpricing issues. I undestand that Elite Pto high cost is for Gaming and Audio creation as well, but Entertainment isn't worse that X-treme Music or I hope it's not worse that DAC for 250$.
If you will compare it for 250$ DAC it shouldn't be worse for Music listening and besides is has other useful options.
It's just my opinion.Never heard any DAC or Elite Pro.
Again, it looks like I am trying to convince myself or justify a purchase (Elite Pro). Otherwise , if I will look to the DAC directory I don't want to buy avarage DAC - I will want to buy a decent one. It looks like we are talking about some sound card + DAC , and as far as I undestand a good DAC start from 400...
Sergey

 

[humanflyz]

@Sergey:
Let's say that you do end up getting the X-Fi Elite Pro and are satisfied with it, you will, like you said, probably end up getting a decent, dedicated DAC in the future. Let's just say that a decent DAC starts out at $400 like you said, you're out $300 + $400 for the X-Fi and the DAC.

Or if you get the X-Fi Extreme Music, and end up getting a decent DAC in the future for $400, then you are only out $500 whereas with the Elite Pro and the DAC you are out $700.

In my personal opinion, the $200 difference is not worth it because if you end up getting a DAC, your X-Fi, whether it is the Elite Pro or the Music Extreme, will essentially only act as a transport. So you just have to figure out whether you want to spend the $200 dollars more or not (assuming that you will eventually get a DAC).

For me, I would get the X-Fi Music Extreme, because in my experience, the change in the DAC is much more noticeable than the change in the soundcard. But your experiences may vary, so the best thing you can do is to buy the product you want from a place that lets you do returns, just in case you don't like it and want to return it.

 

[MikeW]

I agree with the above poster, and can say I definatly prefer the output of my 200$ Dac over the X-fi's output. This combo cost about ~370$. And I can always resale my dac when I decide to upgrade, for minimal loss.

 

[Citizen Z]

The CMSS-3D upmix (EVEN WITH HEADPHONES) and crossfeed features on the X-Fi make it worth it by themselves. The difference is astonishing. Think of it as though the X-Fi took a 192kbit mp3 and filled in the missing data to make it CD quality. The effect is every bit as dramatic.

If you are listening to music on a PC, an X-FI cannot be rivaled by any DAC, at least in your price range. The next step to improve sound is to listen to lossless audio instead of MP3's. Get the X-Fi Music.

 

[marscay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW A few points to make -- the reason X-Fi sounds much better then Audigy 2, is not because of your superior OP-Amps on your Elite pro, while that has somthing to do with it, the bigger issue is the far superior resampling engine that all X-fi's sport. So even Extreme Music sounds much better then Audigy 2 for music. Also the reason the Elite Pro is so much more expensive dosent really have much to do with the opamps and dac chips which are maybe 2 bucks more expensive then what is in the extreme music, it's just because creative is exploiting the premium product and overpricing. All this talk of Microphone support is kind of moot in my opinion ~ USB mics are quite capable. Unless your going to be singing into the thing or somthing and profesionally recording a USB mic will do everything you need, probably better then most standard pc mic's at that, there's a 30$ logitech plug and play, USB mic's that just great. Also the reason "people don't like x-fi for music" has little to do with it's actual performance and everything to do with all the hate that creative tech gets, which is not nessarily undue, but people are biased just because it says creative on it. edit: i also prefer my "Technically inferior" source (Dialogue II) to the analog output of my Xtreme Music ~~ YMMV. Just because somthing is inferior specwise dosent mean it won't have a more enjoyable sound signature, all non os dac's are greatly inferior to oversampling dacs on paper, but in reality their sound signature is quite enjoyable for those who like it.

***edited***

using your logic an emu1212 with it's DAC's and Op-amps replaced with audigy2 quality would still sound the same

 

[TooNice]

From a purely technical point of view, where does the Elite Pro stands compared to this DAC (stock), or the Spitfire?

 

[Sycraft]

The Elite Pro's DACs are the Cirrus Logic CS4398 which spec at 192khz, 120dB. Of course supporting electronics reduce what you actually get, but not by much apparantly. Toms's Hardware behched the X-fi and the result is 112dB dynamic range. Now remember that is done in a loopback mode, the input connected to the output, so the results are a sum of the flaws in both stages. This means in reality the outputs probably have about 115dB of dynamic range which is pretty superb. The frequency respose is dead flat too.

As for subjective sound I can't compare it to those DACs as I've not heard them, but I thik it sounds superb, better than the M-Audio Firewire 410 I had.

 

[TooNice]

Thanks. I don't quite understand how to read the technical spec.

Where does the CS8414 stands compared to the "Crystal 24BIT CS8414 receiver and NEW model ANALOG DEVICE AD 1852 24/192 DAC"?