[mikemalter]

Zac,

Would you mind saying how much you paid for your XCan V3? I have one that I am going to be selling, and I would like to make sure it is priced appropriately.

Thanks.

 

[Ypoknons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zac.R /img/forum/go_quote.gif Apologies, but I am little confused. I am not very technical when it comes to the finer details of electronics, but what I gathered from the article in the link you posted contradicts what you said 'Power supplies can definitely make a difference'. From the article - "...speed is valid for a regulated supply for a critical application, but is completely meaningless for a power amplifier with an unregulated supply - which is 99.9% of them." "I can make a power supply "slow", simply by placing some resistance in series - the caps will no longer be able to discharge at their maximum rate. Will this affect an amplifier? Only in that the maximum power will no longer be achieved, but this will also happen if the AC mains supply is 10% low. Does this somehow degrade the sound of an amplifier? I think not." For a layman such as myself, I am getting a little lost... I guess all I can do is an A/B test for myself (which in themselves are flawed as you know which component you are listening to before the test starts). Some hard, scientific evidence for one way or the other would be great!

It's difficult. You want hard scientific evidence, but then you say you're a layman, as am I. We have to look at evidence we cannot fully understand. I was actually referring to the thread, not the article, especially where nikongod and others was talking about PSRR. People knowledgeable in amp design, imo, have spoken to the importance of power supplies, and an appeal to authority is necessary in my case because I am a layman. Nevertheless, I will try to set this out as scientifically as I can. I apologize to any technical person, engineer, hobbyist or scientist, who finds this posts rather poor.

I cannot find an article that says A/B tests say that power supplies make a difference. However, I do have several technical articles. I infer from this National Semiconductor article that in analogy circuits noise can be reduced either at the supply or by making circuits more resistant to noise. This Tangent Article talks about power supplies with regards to opamp performance:
Quote:

Contrast a constant 120 Hz ripple like you get from some wall power supplies: this will add a constant 120 Hz undertone to the music, which is far more audible.

Quote:

Does power quality matter? Certainly. Should you avoid unregulated power supplies for op-amp audio? Yes, unless you add external regulation. Are batteries and linear power supplies the only suitable power sources, then? Well, no. Modern switching power supplies have ultrasonic switching frequencies, and a good switcher will have low ripple as well. True, this is not technically ideal, but in practice this noise doesn't usually affect sound quality for low-gain amplifiers. As for ripple, you can sometimes get away with constant low frequency ripple if your op-amp has a high PSRR rating at the ripple frequency. But in my opinion, power supply ripple is worth spending time and money to avoid. Induced ripple due to current demands is also worth getting rid of, but it's not nearly as big a concern as noise and constant ripple.

Yes, the article refers to op-amps not your tube amp. For tube, I gather from this post applies also to tubes, as it does for all analog electronics. More posts are useful. From my research it seems that having a low noise supply won't always help, if your circuit has a good PPSR, but it depends on the design of the circuits. That's just one dimension, power supply noise. On a more basic level, that's what an amplifer really is - a device that takes power from batteries or wall wart to to amplify a signal. The power supply, logically, is going to need a good level of performance. Frankly, the wealth of technical information about power supplies and their effects is quite rich, even for a layman, maybe you should do the research yourself rather than going "oh, but maybe it's placebo" "oh I want science!!!!"

 

[Zac.R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ypoknons /img/forum/go_quote.gif Frankly, the wealth of technical information about power supplies and their effects is quite rich, even for a layman, maybe you should do the research yourself rather than going "oh, but maybe it's placebo" "oh I want science!!!!"

Ypoknons - As mentioned before, I plan to test the differences myself, instead of just going "oh, but maybe it's placebo" "oh I want science!!!!"". What I hear matters in the end.
In the meantime, I consider asking questions, questioning answers and reading all the information yourself and others provided, research - wouldn't you?

That aside, thankyou for the information you provided, that's why this forum is great - people sharing knowledge.

 

[Zac.R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemalter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Zac, Would you mind saying how much you paid for your XCan V3? I have one that I am going to be selling, and I would like to make sure it is priced appropriately. Thanks.

Mike, I paid pretty close to $200AUD on ebay. I would have paid more, though.

 

[mikemalter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zac.R /img/forum/go_quote.gif Once again, thanks for the input. Couldn't help myself - I have already ordered the cardas cable! With shipping times the cable and amp should be here either the same day or maybe a day apart. Either way, I will definitely be listening to the amp alone for a few days before I put in the cable. (well, I will try! gonna be pretty hard to resist using the cardas straight away). Also picking up some high quality RCAs tomorrow to connect the stx to the x-can. I am very interested in the little pinkie and the PinkFloyd mods, but I am in Brisbane, Australia. Does anyone know if the PSU works here? How do the mods work - do I have to send the amp away to have them done? Cheers

I've got the Cardas replacement cable myself for the HD 650 and it really makes a difference. So recently when I upgraded to an HD800 I got the replacement cable for it, and again I was not disappointed. It was well worth it.

 

[Zac.R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemalter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've got the Cardas replacement cable myself for the HD 650 and it really makes a difference. So recently when I upgraded to an HD800 I got the replacement cable for it, and again I was not disappointed. It was well worth it.

OH...MY...GOD! I cannot believe the difference the cardas have made! I just got them this afternoon and have just finished listening to 3 songs - amazing!

I'm not going to get over excited and say 'night and day' but the difference is immense, comprehensive and instant! I love them

If the X-Can V3 (due tomorrow) can takes these cans even further (HD 650's) I literally cannot wait!

Edit: I have usually been of the 'I need to see/hear to believe it' persuassion, especially with cables. Now that I have seen, I have heard, I am a believer...

 

[mikemalter]

Zac,

Yeah, as you can hear it is really worth it.

To give you an idea of how much of a performance boost the cable brings. I compared my HD650 with the Cardas replacement to my HD800, and they are very close musically. That is right, the HD650 with the Cardas is very close to how the HD800 sounds. Of course, I got the replacement cable for the HD800, and it bumped me up again in performance.

I don't know why a replacement cable would make that much of a difference, but it really does. Really glad we have these options available to us.

 

[entrope]

From my experience the single largest benefit of having a USB DAC versus sound card are drivers.

A lot of sound card manufacturers include extremely bloated driver/software packages which mess about with the sound at a driver/software level in attempt to achieve higher "sound quality" - something which doesn't always work very well. Not to mention features which allow you to mess about with sound effects and all (which in certain cases can never be quite turned 100% off).

The lightweight MS USB DAC driver does "seem" to leave the sound alone and thus remaining truer to the source.

 

[Zac.R]

*Update*

So, I recieved my X-Can V3 two days ago...

I have been listening to all my 'test' songs (songs I love and know inside and out) and my feeling about the V3 is, well, um.... mixed.

The soundstage is more open, and the clarity and seperation has definitely improved... but it is lacking 'punch'.

Basically, the SQ has noticeably improved, but that 'hit' (it's hard to put into words) um... the authority I was expecting to experience from going from an STX to an external amp is not there. I am still VERY happy with the improvement in SQ, but just a little underwhelmed with the impact. I don't like to have to put the volume up a great deal to achieve it...

It could quite possibly be because I upgraded to the cardas cable a day before getting the amp. The cable made such a huge improvement, I probably made the mistake of expecting the same level of improvement again from the amp.

Next step is a LittlePinkie PSU and PinkFloyd Mods and I will see where I am at then

/end ramble

EDIT: also keeping me up at night is whether to use the line outs or the headphone out of the STX. I have tried both into the X-Can multiple times (different songs change my opinion back and forth) and have read through the for's and against's on the forum, but still can't decide!

 

[Zac.R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrope /img/forum/go_quote.gif From my experience the single largest benefit of having a USB DAC versus sound card are drivers. A lot of sound card manufacturers include extremely bloated driver/software packages which mess about with the sound at a driver/software level in attempt to achieve higher "sound quality" - something which doesn't always work very well. Not to mention features which allow you to mess about with sound effects and all (which in certain cases can never be quite turned 100% off). The lightweight MS USB DAC driver does "seem" to leave the sound alone and thus remaining truer to the source.

entrope, the Xonar STX has a fairly straight forward control panel. I have all settings on 'normal' ie, no equaliser, no boost or effects and the sample rate is set to exactly what my music files are recorded in.

I agree with you that most software or drivers try to enhance, or at least give you endless options to ehance the SQ, but in the STX's case, I believe you can turn everything '100% off'.

Cheers

 

[audiofil]

You could into better opamps for the soundcard.
This should improve things even further.
There is a dedicated topic on the Computer section of the forum.

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zac.R /img/forum/go_quote.gif *Update* So, I recieved my X-Can V3 two days ago... I have been listening to all my 'test' songs (songs I love and know inside and out) and my feeling about the V3 is, well, um.... mixed. The soundstage is more open, and the clarity and seperation has definitely improved... but it is lacking 'punch'. Basically, the SQ has noticeably improved, but that 'hit' (it's hard to put into words) um... the authority I was expecting to experience from going from an STX to an external amp is not there. I am still VERY happy with the improvement in SQ, but just a little underwhelmed with the impact. I don't like to have to put the volume up a great deal to achieve it... It could quite possibly be because I upgraded to the cardas cable a day before getting the amp. The cable made such a huge improvement, I probably made the mistake of expecting the same level of improvement again from the amp. Next step is a LittlePinkie PSU and PinkFloyd Mods and I will see where I am at then /end ramble EDIT: also keeping me up at night is whether to use the line outs or the headphone out of the STX. I have tried both into the X-Can multiple times (different songs change my opinion back and forth) and have read through the for's and against's on the forum, but still can't decide!

That sounds like the X-CAN. I remember thinking something like that when I plugged in the X-CAN for the first time. I still sometimes prefer using my low-end 90s power amp instead. Do you find that it just lacks punch, or is the deep bass rolled off as well?

 

[mikemalter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zac.R /img/forum/go_quote.gif *Update* So, I recieved my X-Can V3 two days ago... I have been listening to all my 'test' songs (songs I love and know inside and out) and my feeling about the V3 is, well, um.... mixed. The soundstage is more open, and the clarity and seperation has definitely improved... but it is lacking 'punch'. Basically, the SQ has noticeably improved, but that 'hit' (it's hard to put into words) um... the authority I was expecting to experience from going from an STX to an external amp is not there. I am still VERY happy with the improvement in SQ, but just a little underwhelmed with the impact. I don't like to have to put the volume up a great deal to achieve it... It could quite possibly be because I upgraded to the cardas cable a day before getting the amp. The cable made such a huge improvement, I probably made the mistake of expecting the same level of improvement again from the amp. Next step is a LittlePinkie PSU and PinkFloyd Mods and I will see where I am at then /end ramble EDIT: also keeping me up at night is whether to use the line outs or the headphone out of the STX. I have tried both into the X-Can multiple times (different songs change my opinion back and forth) and have read through the for's and against's on the forum, but still can't decide!

Zac,

I have an X-Can V3 and while it was mated with an HD650, it had a lot of punch, or impact. And, I am currently using it with an HD800 with really great effect.

Have you thought about using an offboard DAC since the Asus has a COAX output that supports 192KHz. Especially since you are using FLAC as your source you could have some really great hi-rez music and wonderful sound if you use your computer simply as a digital source.

Thoughts?

 

[SP Wild]

I have this amp along with its V3 psu. I liked it alot when it was my only amp. Then I heard a Lehmann rhinelander amp. The problem with the stock v3 is the indistinct - smudgy bass with no sub-bass extension. The extreme treble is also slightly rolled off and the details are slightly masked. The sound is not at smooth as others and I consider it slightly grained. When cranked up loud for the occassional fun the sound hardens up and compresses.

However it is slightly forward in signature and mates well with the 650. The tubes add a touch of magic and it is not unpleasant overall. I have never heard it modded but I know there are better amps out there for the price - ss or tubed.

 

[Zac.R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP Wild /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have this amp along with its V3 psu. I liked it alot when it was my only amp. Then I heard a Lehmann rhinelander amp. The problem with the stock v3 is the indistinct - smudgy bass with no sub-bass extension. The extreme treble is also slightly rolled off and the details are slightly masked. The sound is not at smooth as others and I consider it slightly grained. When cranked up loud for the occassional fun the sound hardens up and compresses. However it is slightly forward in signature and mates well with the 650. The tubes add a touch of magic and it is not unpleasant overall. I have never heard it modded but I know there are better amps out there for the price - ss or tubed.

Mate, you absolutely just hit the nail on the head. You perfectly described my experience with the amp. It's the lack of bass extension that I noticed first and the highs just not quite being reached.

It does go well with the 650, and is very nice to listen to. I am happy with it, but am hungry for what's lacking...

Edit: Audiofil - after the new psu and amp mods, opamp experiments on the STX will be next