[Narc]

I have listened to vinyl and digital recordings side by side through the same amp and speakers and they certainly sound different - the vinyl sound is more pleasing to my ears. I've read a fair bit about the vinyl vs digital 'debate' and my conclusions are that there is no technical superiority of vinyl (rather the opposite in some contexts) and the only reason that vinyl and digital sound different is related to the different ways they are traditionally mastered.

Let's assume this is true (from what I've read it certainly seems so). If the difference is simply in the mastering then a loseless digital rip of vinyl would therefore replicate the EXACT sound of the original vinyl master when played back on similar quality high end systems. By extension, that loseless rip of vinyl would sound different to the digital CD master of the same song in the exact same way that vinyl sounds different to the CD. Is this true...has anyone compared this side by side?

I ask because I was about to splash out on a turntable but if the above is indeed true then I think that money would be better spent upgrading my speakers and amp and simply downloading lossless vinyl rips to get that vinyl 'airy and organic' style sound but without the added complications of turntables and vinyl wear and tear etc.. Bear in mind that I'm all about the sound and not so much the aesthetics, collectibility and what not. While the notion of a record collection is somewhat appealing, if I can faithfully rip that more pleasing (to my ears anyway) vinyl sound to FLAC, then I'd rather spend that extra money on a better equipment setup.

 

[Nostoi]

I started downloading loseless vinyl rips about a decade ago and I now have about 18TB worth of rips. For each of these vinyl rips, I have an equivalent CD or SACD rip. The difference in sound indeed correlates with the differences you'd hear if you played a vinyl on a turntable and compared it with a CD.

If you go down this path, the main problem is finding the decent rips. You need to do your research. In addition, I would also say that having downloaded so many of these rips, my conclusion is that an excellent vinyl rip easily outclasses a CD rip. But it's also the case that a CD rip, if well mastered and produced, can often sound better than the vinyl version.

 

[Narc]

I started downloading loseless vinyl rips about a decade ago and I now have about 18TB worth of rips. For each of these vinyl rips, I have an equivalent CD or SACD rip. The difference in sound indeed correlates with the differences you'd hear if you played a vinyl on a turntable and compared it with a CD.

If you go down this path, the main problem is finding the decent rips. You need to do your research. In addition, I would also say that having downloaded so many of these rips, my conclusion is that an excellent vinyl rip easily outclasses a CD rip. But it's also the case that a CD rip, if well mastered and produced, can often sound better than the vinyl version.

Good to know someone has extensive experience of these sound comparisons. Yes, I had considered the difficulty in obtaining high quality vinyl rips and the variability here may not make it worth that gnawing feeling that it doesn't quite sound as it should. In reference to your other point, I fully agree that the digital master can technically outshine vinyl when mastered in a similar way but as far as I can tell, this is not generally done, for reasons that we don't need to get into here. The CD master is just different and that's why the two sounds diverge, for better or worse depending on your preference.

Where do you get your vinyl rips? Leaning towards this option now and thinking of putting that turntable cost and future vinyl spend into an equipment upgrade.

 

[Nostoi]

Where do you get your vinyl rips?

Mostly private blog sites.

But for starters - and since he's well known in the community and openly discusses his rips in public - I'd start by looking into Pbthal.

 

[dunring]

I've had some .dsf format vinyl rips in DSD64 and on good equipment you wouldn't know you weren't listening to a turntable. Everything down to the needle floating on it is captured. I just never got much into it because of availability, and for critical listening even when done on a good turntable it can be distracting to listen to at higher volume.
Making them from a record collection would be fun, not to mention the convenience of it. You just face availability problems finding legit sources for it unless you rip them yourself.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

^

So buy a digital recorder and rip them yourself

 

[Narc]

I've had some .dsf format vinyl rips in DSD64 and on good equipment you wouldn't know you weren't listening to a turntable. Everything down to the needle floating on it is captured. I just never got much into it because of availability, and for critical listening even when done on a good turntable it can be distracting to listen to at higher volume.
Making them from a record collection would be fun, not to mention the convenience of it. You just face availability problems finding legit sources for it unless you rip them yourself.

Cheers, this is what I gather. I'm not really a collectables person so the records won't hold that attraction for me either. Spending large on really good speakers / amp seems like the better use of money right now.

It's funny because I can see CDs making a big comeback in 10 or 20 years too. These things are part nostalgia and also to have something tangible in your hand and I get the attraction there. But sound quality is the main driver for me right now because there is certainly room to upgrade my equipment.

 

[vcoheda]

the boston public library has a massive vinyl LP collection where LPs have been ripped and converted to 24 bit files. downloading these files is free. A number of albums are limited to samples but there is a large number of LPs (really the collection is huge) where the entire album is available. i have spent considerable time downloading and listening to these files. the quality varies, so it can be hit or miss, but definitely worth spending some time browsing.

https://archive.org/details/vinyl_bostonpubliclibrary

 

[chesebert]

I have listened to vinyl and digital recordings side by side through the same amp and speakers and they certainly sound different - the vinyl sound is more pleasing to my ears. I've read a fair bit about the vinyl vs digital 'debate' and my conclusions are that there is no technical superiority of vinyl (rather the opposite in some contexts) and the only reason that vinyl and digital sound different is related to the different ways they are traditionally mastered.

Let's assume this is true (from what I've read it certainly seems so). If the difference is simply in the mastering then a loseless digital rip of vinyl would therefore replicate the EXACT sound of the original vinyl master when played back on similar quality high end systems. By extension, that loseless rip of vinyl would sound different to the digital CD master of the same song in the exact same way that vinyl sounds different to the CD. Is this true...has anyone compared this side by side?

I ask because I was about to splash out on a turntable but if the above is indeed true then I think that money would be better spent upgrading my speakers and amp and simply downloading lossless vinyl rips to get that vinyl 'airy and organic' style sound but without the added complications of turntables and vinyl wear and tear etc.. Bear in mind that I'm all about the sound and not so much the aesthetics, collectibility and what not. While the notion of a record collection is somewhat appealing, if I can faithfully rip that more pleasing (to my ears anyway) vinyl sound to FLAC, then I'd rather spend that extra money on a better equipment setup.

That's some good instinct. You can actually connect a Linn turntable to a Linn streamer/preamp via a RJ45 cable (the connection is digital and proprietary) and the Linn turntable sounds fantastic. Given the turntable's input to the Linn streamer/preamp is a digital signal and relies on the internal dac to complete the conversion, it would be reasonable to assume that a digital representation of the cartridge output saved in a file and played back as a digital file would sound just as good.

 

[Narc]

the boston public library has a massive vinyl LP collection where LPs have been ripped and converted to 24 bit files. downloading these files is free. A number of albums are limited to samples but there is a large number of LPs (really the collection is huge) where the entire album is available. i have spent considerable time downloading and listening to these files. the quality varies, so it can be hit or miss, but definitely worth spending some time browsing.

https://archive.org/details/vinyl_bostonpubliclibrary

Wow this is a great resource, thanks for sharing.

 

[gregorio]

the vinyl sound is more pleasing to my ears. I've read a fair bit about the vinyl vs digital 'debate' and my conclusions are that there is no technical superiority of vinyl (rather the opposite in some contexts) …

There is no rational debate about the technical superiority of vinyl. There’s no debate at all in the scientific, pro audio or engineering worlds, there’s only debate in the audiophile world but it’s not a rational debate. Digital is superior to vinyl in every technical respect.

However, a small minority of people find the added noise and distortion of vinyl to be pleasing.

the only reason that vinyl and digital sound different is related to the different ways they are traditionally mastered.

Traditionally, vinyl was mastered differently. For example, the use (and inverse use) of the RIAA curve to try and reduce noise. Today and for many years, the majority of vinyl is cut from the same digital masters, so typically the mastering is not why they sound different. It’s because of the additional noise/distortion inherent in cutting, pressing and reproducing vinyl.

A digital recording of the output from a turntable will however provide an exact copy of that output and would be audibly identical. The only potential issue, as others have mentioned, is whether the person who performed the rip made some mistake or deliberately changed the digital recording.

G