[d_wilson]

Can you help me.

I need help finding some of the portable players with the wimpiest output amplifiers. It would be nice to use ER-4's with all of the new protable equipment. We are doing some testing on the output amplifierrs of the equipment we can get our hands on here. I know there are worse units than we have here to test. Since the budget doesn't allow buying one of everything I hope to compile a list of some of the worst.

I am interested in good equipment with weak outputs such as: CD players, MP3 players, DAT recorders, MD etc.

Don Wilson
Etymotic Research
d_wilson@etymotic.com

 

[coolvij]

I kno the new Panasonic MDs have ridiculous amps (3.5 mw!?)....but I am not big into "the worst" gear, lol.

Also try cheap Philips PCDPs; I have one, and think the amp is pretty cheap...

 

[MacDEF]

Don:

coolvij is right; some of the new Panasonic MDs have ridiculously weak headphone outputs.

As far as MD goes, check out:

http://minidisc.org/equipment_browser.html

It lists every MD player/recorder ever made, along with specs -- most include headphone outputs.

I have one of the newest Sony players (E900) with the weaker amps (great battery life, only 5mW amp). If you need anyone to do some testing

 

[DanG]

Oh yeah, I have a Sony MZ-R900 MD recorder with a 5mW headphone output. Yeah, I'll do some testing too!

 

[Peddler]

I use the ER4P on the Sony R900 Mini Disc recorder and I have to say that it goes pretty loud - I usually knock the sound down by a couple of notches when I want to listen loud!!!

Having said that, it sounds even better through the Airhead.

I've heard that the Rio Volt MP3/CD player has a fairly weak output - hope this helps.

 

[grrr223]

I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but my Sony STR-DE545 Receiver has the absolute worst headphone jack that I have ever listened to. Glad that piece of information will help make the (audio) world a better place

.

 

[d_wilson]

At this point we are measuring the output in mV of different CD players with different loads.

The problem is that most of the equipment we have is several years old. I want to get information on what is happening with current equipment before we design a new transducer around it.

It is my belief from what I have seen personally and heard here that the equipment keeps getting weaker and the headphone impedances keep getting lower.

 

[leon]

I own the Panasonic SJ-MJ88 and the SJ-MR200, both have the 3.5+3.5mW (@22ohm) headphone amp. Let me know if there's anything I can help with.

Just did a small, unscientific test with my ER-4S, for your casual reading pleasure:

I had the MR200 (3.5+3.5mW @ 22ohm), Sharp 831 (10+10mW @ 32ohm), Sony E80 (5+5mW @ 16ohm). And as reference: Panasonic CT780 and S270 (both 9+9mW @ 16ohm).

I tried the volume scale first, and found that the MR200 is perceived to be louder than the 831 and E80. Since volume control scales may not be meaningful, I tried the airhead with the portable at full volume, 60% volume (18/30 or 15-25) and 50% volume (15/30 and 11/25). 60% is included because you can't get a 12.5 volume on a 0-25 scale equipment. The non full-volume figures are included because the 831 goes into line out mode (250mV @ -12dB, impedance 10k ohm) at full volume.

The volume knob on the Airhead is defined as how many "turns" I need to go from zero. A "turn" is moving from one end of the volume knob hole to the other end.

These number of turns are needed to reach approximately the same volume when I play the same song from the portable, through the Airhead:

full volume
MR200 - 3/4; 831 - 1/4; E80 - 3/4; 780 - 1/2; 270 - 1/4

60% volume
MR200 - 1 and 1/2; 831 - 2; E80 - 1 and 1/2; 780 - 1 and 1/4; 270 - 3/4

50% volume
MR200 - 2; 831 - 2 and 1/2; E80 - 2; 780 - 2; 270 - 1

Like I said, this is a horribly unscientific test - for instance, one should consider the factor that Panasonics are generally stronger in midrange, and the vocals stand out more. Quality issues are also not taken into account. The 831 is as "rich" as the S270, which I use as a benchmark. On the E80 and MR200 I could hear the harshness of the encoded data.

 

[Euphonic]

The worst for me is the Nomad Jukebox. It's a very good player with very good sound but regrettably the amp is very underpowered. I can listen to it at full power with E888 and SR60 in a quiet room. So it's useless in a noisy room. But the specs say that it's 100mw ?

Other than that there are the Panasonic and Sony minidisc with 3.5mw amp.

Also look at the amps in Palm/PDA/Pocket PC's/Mobile phones. These are the market segment which will have the highest growth. And many of the products are made by companies who doesn't know anything about audio.

When testing the amp specs, do try it with the eq/bass turned on also.

If you decide to make ER4x at 27ohm with frequency response of ER4s. One downside is increased hiss sound from bad amp. A better solution would be a switch on the cable to select 27-50-100 ohm. Then also throw in a high frequency roll-off switch for sound like ER4p. So with this solution you would need to make only one universal product.

But for most users, a killer product would be an ER4V (Value) sold for $100. Hope you have these products to sell intime to stuff up my Christmas stocking this year.

 

[chych]

Yeah I'd agree with something like the ER-4V... because there is NOTHING between the $60 Sony MDR-E888 (or perhaps the EX70 would be more appropriate) and the Etymotics at ~$270

 

[mcbiff]

If there was an ER4V that didn't sacrifice *too* much (i.e. still sounds better than the EX70s) I would buy it in an instant.

 

[evilcthul]

All Panasonic player specs:
http://www.panasonic.com.au/audiols/...ort.cfm?CAT=SL

Sony product specs:
http://64.14.40.118/products/prodlist.jsp

Philips Specs:
http://www2.consumer.philips.com/glo...category.jhtml;jsessionid=M5TTPI0THR3O0CUZAEVSHQAKTMATSI5G?divId =0&groupId=AUDIO&catId=PORTABLEAUDIO

Hope they help...

 

[Tides]

Quote:

Originally posted by Peddler I've heard that the Rio Volt MP3/CD player has a fairly weak output - hope this helps.

I disagree strongly there. with older firmware, perhaps.

But not with the latest firmware. With the latest firmware, the volume goes to 40 in levels. VERY loud . I cant listen past level 34 as it is TOO loud and hurts my ears.

Keep in mind quality of the MP3 also matters. Some mp3s are much lower volume to start with.

You can use the weak output statement with old firmware, but definitely not with the latest firmware upgrade. ( Rio VOlt is great because of the upgrade possibilities as well)

Tides

 

[coolvij]

the old firmware must have been REALLY crappy if a FIRMWARE tweak could affect the output strength....

 

[FunkeHomosapien]

The RioVolt has a 7mw output.

The new firmware has an option for 40 sound levels. This only lets you fine tune the volume more than the old 20 levels.

example: 10/20 = 20/40

The output in the headphone jack was increased a little by the latest firmware. This is because the RioVolt does not have a true line-out. The volume in the "line-out" is a ratio of the headphone volume. I think before it was 60:40, now it is 70:30. This allows more power to go to the headphone jack.