Word of caution to E3 owners, buyers...
Mar 7, 2004 at 10:44 PM Post #16 of 34
Don't confuse impedance with efficiency. The E3c are easily the most efficient headphones of any kind I've ever heard, and that includes the Sony CD1700 that are one of the (if not the) most efficient full-size headphones. CD1700 are quite a bit more efficient than SR60 for reference. That's why I was very surprised anyone would use the E3c close to full volume, because I couldn't handle that with any of my albums even on my Zen Xtra that is supposed to have weaker headphone output than the iPod.
 
Mar 8, 2004 at 3:07 AM Post #17 of 34
Quote:

Hmm...I feel giving relative volumes like this for the iPod isn't exactly the best way to gauge volume levels. You need to take into account different volume levels of songs and mp3s. For example, when I listen to my A900 out of my iPod (not quite as efficient as the E3, 40 ohms I believe) I am usually just under half--but for some songs (especially some classical) I'm close to 3/4.


CD's, and hence anything derived from CD's, have limited dynamic range. i.e. Even if you had the recording and playback equipment to do it, you couldn't reproduce both a moth beating its wings and a cannon blast on the same CD. At least, not accurately anyways. Think of it this way: 0 is a numerical value which represents the maximum possible volume, and you only have about a 100dB range to work with. (I forget the real numbers, sorry.) There is a 120dB differece in the volumes of a moth beating its wings and a cannon blast. If you record the cannon blast acurately the moth's wing-beating will be below the noise floor of the recording. Likewise, if you lower the actual volume of 0 to the point where you can record the moth beating its wings, the cannon blast will be clipped.

Bear with me. I do have a point.

For this reason, when recording music it is common, or at least, proper practice to set 0 to be very close to the loudest sound in the recording. That way you have the maximum dynamic range possible without anything clipping. In music where everything is of fairly consistent volume (e.g. rock music) a lot of the track material will be fairly close to 0. In classical, only a few intense bursts will be close to 0. As a result, the average volume of a rock track will be higher than a classical track. This is what you're hearing when you say some tracks are louder than others. (Bear in mind, you can deliberately record things hot, but that typically sounds very very bad... You can also record things cold. It's a bit of a waste, but not really a horrendously bad thing to do for most music.)

When I say 1/10, I mean for fairly typical musical tracks of most genres. I might turn it up a tad for some classical pieces or down for punk metal, but I'm typically very close to on tenth of the ipod's bar. For all I know toaster22 is listening almost exclusively to very quiet tracks. However, all I can go on is my own listening habits, and that ammount of volume would kill me *even* on the coldest track I own. (An ancient Harry Belafonte recording) I have never used A900's, but I have used the exact same E3's as toaster22 so I do have a pretty good idea of what volume's he's experiencing. The only thing I can think of that might affect things is if he bought his iPod in Europe and it has the lower maximum volume. He has Long Island, NY in his location though, so I figured it was the standard iPod.

Quote:

i have definitely been one to shrug off tinnitis before. however, this is the first time that i have actually noticed any sort of hearing loss in one of my ears. i also compose music, so my hearing is incredibly important to me. i guess i've just been taking it for granted up to now. i always listen to loud music, but with canalphones, i now know that loud is not an option when the music is blasting a mm away from you eardrum. i will continue to keep you guys posted on my right ear's progress (fingers crossed) over the next few days.


Just think of Tinnitis as your ears' way of screaming for mercy.
biggrin.gif
Good luck man, I really hope your damage is just wax, an ear infection, or something else that's temporary.
 
Mar 8, 2004 at 4:40 AM Post #18 of 34
thanks for those kind words cor.

some clarifications from your post...

the whole cannon and moth thing was over my head and while i appreciate your effort to give us all a lesson in sound recording i myself could not quite understand what you were getting at...
confused.gif


that aside,

the ipod i am listening to was bought in the U.S, so it's volume is not capped.

Most of the music i listen to is rock and it is VERY loud,
SR-71, Third Eye Blind, (not to mention that binaural fireworks recording - 5 minutes into that thing presents one of the most amazing soundstages i've ever heard)

So, yeah, i have noticed more prolonged tinnitis than i am used to since i took of my e3's yesterday. (i only register prolonged tinnitis as a problem. bad idea)

i hope this is temporary. if my hearing comes back i will not take it for granted any more. we'll see how things sound tomorrow...

it's still ringing in here, and now i know it's just me.
 
Mar 8, 2004 at 7:08 AM Post #19 of 34
Thanks for the informative post Cor, and I apologize for confusing impedance/efficiancy, Cor seems to have gotten my point, at least the gist of what I was saying.

That being said, impedance or otherwise, I would still imagine the A900 (will very, very efficient) is a tad less so than the E3c. Wouldn't the driver size differences almost dictate it?
 
Mar 9, 2004 at 11:37 PM Post #20 of 34
Well it's been 2 days and my hearing still has not returned to full.

Over the last 2 days i have been fighting a bout with tinnitus in my right ear; the ear that seems to have been affected from loud listening levels with my e3's.

I am at college at the moment and a visit to health services will surely be of no help. I am heading home tomorrow and will try to see my ear doctor.

I have not listened to the e3's for the last 2 days and the tinnitus finally seems to be subsiding this evening, but as i said, hearing is not at its usual level on the right side.

I can only hope that my doctor will have some good news for me and tell me that what i am encountering is not due solely to loud headphone listening but congestion as well - meaning the effects are not permanent and will be alleviated as my cold passes.

i'll keep you guys posted...
 
Mar 10, 2004 at 1:30 AM Post #21 of 34
I find that the #1 cause of tinnitus in myself (probably the cause of most all tinnitus I expirinence) is FLUID in my ears. Right now I ahve a sinus infection and my ears are not draining and thus I can hear the extremely high-pitched tone of tinnitus. Take some Sudafedrine. That'll drain whatever is in there down to a normal level. OR you could have an ear infection, which would cause lots of fluid to build up in your ears (and it would be painful).

Give your ears a week's rest.
 
Mar 10, 2004 at 1:43 AM Post #22 of 34
"Thanks to the E3c" is a somewhat misleading sig.


If you have really been listening to the E3c at more or less the full volume of the iPod, then there is something seriously wrong with your hearing to begin with.
 
Mar 10, 2004 at 1:50 AM Post #23 of 34
Quote:

Originally posted by katfisch
Get the fork vibrating, place the stem firmly on the top of your head (or on your teeth, even).


On your teeth? You are made of sterner stuff than I, katfisch.
 
Mar 10, 2004 at 3:00 AM Post #24 of 34
according to what some people are saying it does appear that i listen to my e3's louder than others do, or can even comprehend, tmc ; )

when i was a child i had an ear infection and had tubes in my ears for many years. after this procedure everything went fine and my hearing has never been a problem. hearing tests to this day have always been absolutely normal, so nothing is medically wrong with my hearing bangraman.

since this issue has come up, i would be interested to know what the general listening levels are for more people using the e3's with the ipod. i know people have different volume leveling settings and different songs so it's not entirely accurate to compare one person to another, but...

does ANYONE listen at near full to full volume with the e3's and an ipod?

i know lindrone said he listens to his music at very high levels. (i remember reading it in one of his posts somewhere) i would be curious to hear at what volume he listens to the e3's at. i know he and i have similar tastes when it comes to the musicality of the shures, so maybe preferable volume levels between us with these phones are similar as well?)

anyway, doctor's appointment is thursday morning.

*to avoid placing all blame on the e3's (although there is absolutely no question they had SOMETHING to do with this) i have changed my sig.

check back for the good word (hopefully) thursday...
 
Mar 10, 2004 at 8:09 AM Post #25 of 34
Not sure how the volume levels of the E3 and E5 compare, but I get more volume than I can handle from my E5 at around 40% on the iPod. Any louder and I get ringing and a headache. I can only assume that the difference between the 3 and 5 is not terribly dramatic. Full volume would have me shrieking in agony after a few bars.
 
Mar 10, 2004 at 10:35 AM Post #26 of 34
Having been involved in industrial OH&S issues I strongly recommend a visit to the doc and an audiometry test. High volumes will ALWAYS damage hearing, but there is a chance you might have something more serious... or simple.

The strange thing is that you are comparing left and right ears. How do you know that both ears are not effected without a baseline comparision to a standard. Check em.

If listening to loud music (and we all do sometimes) keep the interval short and rest the ears afterwards. Levels such as a noisy office environment should not be exceeded for extended listening. For example, 8 hours at background noisy office level is a maximum (say 65 dB for those who can estimate it). If you can keep your music low... at normal conversation level say (eg 45 dB) then damage is a lot less likely and the need to have breaks is not as pressing.

Part of the reason I like isolating canal phones like etys is that you can lower the sound level to a very low level, still get quality sound and listen for ages without fatigue or hopefully damage.

But, if you love your music, and want to hear it best, a checkup is a great idea.

Keep well, (and sorry for the sermon)

TonyAAA
 
Mar 11, 2004 at 6:34 AM Post #29 of 34
well, i just got home from college. got the ear doctor in the morning, so i will have a diagnosis soon.

on the bus ride home i listened to my e3's for the first time in 3 days. i proceeded with caution. i listened at no more than 50% to my music and had somewhat of an epiphone, realizing that it sounded fine. It was not as full across the frequency spectrum as when i crank it way up, but it sounded ok nonetheless.

so here is what i have decided to do.

i love the e3's when they're blasting and they sound alright, but they just don't reach that level of greatness and total satisfaction for me when they are at only 50%. i have decided to sell the e3's and will be purchasing the e5's in the next week or so. i believe with the combination of my new epiphone and the more even frequency spectrum of the e5's i will be able to reach total satisfaction and protect my hearing at the same time. (hopefully the extra punch of the e5's will not make me want to crank the volume even louder. it will be tempting but i must resist.)

i will try to sell these things on headfi before posting them on ebay, so...

Anyone interested in e3c's purchased from todd a little over a month ago for 135 shipped? (btw, if you believe in breakin, this is the pair to get ; )

The foams will not be included as i used those primarily. The small grey flex sleeves were used less than 2 hours and the small clear flex sleeves less than 10 minutes. The mediums and larges (clear and flex) are unused as they did not fit into my ears at all. The wind up case which i have never used, will be included. The warranty card, manuals, are all fine and untouched and will be thrown in as well. i will post something for this in the buying/selling section if these don't go from this post. paypal is preferred for buyer and my safety.

today is judgment day for my right ear...
 
Mar 11, 2004 at 6:46 AM Post #30 of 34
I have E5s. I listen to my ipod at 30-40% volume--when I want to rock out, I may turn it slightly above 50% volume for a short time. I don't know if getting E5s will help you listen at a lower volume.

The ety E4Ps, by contrast, are much less sensitive and I routinely listen to them at 60-70% on the iPod.
 

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