[b0dhi]

Heh they are metal after all. Thanks for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearljam5000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif so,do you think that with a diffrent amp and possibly different pads,GS-1000 could be good for rock and metal and not just Jazz?

I don't have this combo myself (yet), but I hear that the bowls + GS1k gets you fairly close to the RS1, but not quite. I doubt it would be the same though, because the GS were tuned for the bagels. From personal experience I definitely don't like them with the flats, vwaps, or even the C-pads for that matter; the former two because they suck out the mids + highs and the C-pads because they create some kind of reverb which reduces the bass definition IMO.

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braker218 /img/forum/go_quote.gif RS-2 owner hear. And yes I'm happy with the 2's and I do not wish I had gone for the RS-1's. Will I get them eventually, probably, but they are great and I don't see me upgrading very soon.

Hmm, I'm trying to make this a last purchase (does that happen in this community?). And might just gun for the top.

Quote:

Originally Posted by braker218 /img/forum/go_quote.gif And also, some people actually like the RS-2's better than the RS-1's, but those are the minority for sure. As to you being skeptical about the pads, I don't really understand how you could be. The different pads change how close the driver is to your ear, and of course that will change the sound. Try this, with your current headphones, push them closer to your ears and see if that makes a difference in sound. Changing pads will have a similar effect.

Right so clearly it changes some aspects of the sound, and I'm not even skeptical that perhaps John tunes the drivers based on a particular pad (but which one), however I think that the rate of decay for the distances about which we are talking (on the order of mm?), given the speed of sound through air at 25°C and 1 atm, may not change the most unique qualities of the driver's output but rather their presentation. Of course there's shape of these things and such but my guess is that the differences are quite subtle.

Of course, I spend my life making guesses that end up being wrong, so what's the difference on a hobby forum on the internet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another RS-2 owner here with no experience with the RS-1 or GS-1000. I don't really regret going for the RS-2 instead of the RS-1 or GS-1000, especially after I compared the RS-2 to the HF-1 over a period of a few days. Quite frankly, I can't say that the RS-2 is definitely more enjoyable to listen to than the HF-1. The HF-1 has a bigger and more prominent bass plus an overall more intimate sound while the RS-2 has a noticeably more refined sound and tighter, better controlled bass. Considering the HF-1 retailed for half the used price of RS-2 and still command a good $50-100 less used at their post-discontinued market value, they're far better value than the RS-2. There's no doubt that the RS-2 are technically more proficient, but understand that for me, technical proficiency doesn't always translate into greater enjoyment because the sound signature itself is different. Then again, I don't regret purchasing the RS-2. Rock has never sounded so good (much more enjoyable than the HE60 for certain genres)

So I guess the HF-1s are fetching considerably more than the nice offer that Grado made those years ago. Actually my first headphone pursuit happened around the time when that offer was current, and I was of the opinion then that $200 headphones were nuts ....

Regarding the used prices standard on these guys I can pull for the RS-1s and the RS-2s, and even for a used pair of GS1000s, I think that it would not make sense to go for used HF-1s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for your detailed impressions of the three Grados. Now the question is, do you think the GS-1000 is really worth double the used price of a RS-1, let alone almost triple that of a used RS-2? It seems to me the main difference is more in the sound presentation/signature. You seem to prefer the intimacy of the Reference Series over the newer "Sennheiser-like" Statement. Is calling the GS-1000 "Senn-like" justified?

I think I've heard the reference to the 1000s before being more Senn-like. Currently they're not on my immediate radar, though I will not discount them for the future, after the RS-1s (or 2s!) have treated me well for some time. That is, I might spend Monday through Thursday at the jook joint but come Saturday I'll be in the concert hall!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif GS1000 is the best for JAZZ all the way, IMO. They eating RS1 for breakfast, but needs a correct amplification. Yes, they do have a bit distant sound, but thats what you have to accept. And you will accept it pretty easy, when your amp is right. The greatest detail, individualety and separation of instrumets is way much better than RS1. I am not sure how they sound with MELOS, but even with my apm they dont have that BIG DISTANT VOCALS and no way they are harsh of any kind. Different story with ROCK music. I still prefer SR225 for ROCK, however they are not in the same league. To be honest I love PS1 with ROCK at most, but the price of them is just to high for my wallet, unfortunately. I truly believe in correct amplification, yes again. I think if you have the right amp you can enjoy them with ROCK as well. But if you music is JAZZ, I am in big doubt that you will find better phones for the money.

Interesting comments concerning jazz, especially. I can count the number of rock songs I have in double digits, though I wouldn't hesitate at throwing some post-1969 Miles Davis and some 70s and 80s Herbie into that genre, which I listen to plenty. We're just not talkin dominant male voices and electronic lead guitar and bass guitar.

However I've probably said this a few times here and elsewhere recently, that jazz for me isn't some kind of kick back and smoke one and discuss politics with your bohemian buddies kind of music. Jazz for me is an in-your-face funky "how-the-hell-did-they-do-that" kinda affair! Perhaps amplification had something to do with it, I won't discount that. But my impression was that the RS-1s have a kick in the side of the head (around the ears, even ... ) that the 1ks couldn't quite deliver!

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, the GS1k certainly have the bass for rock/metal, and the Grado guitar edge, but it's a different presentation than the rest. It seperates the layers a bit too well, which sometimes doesn't work for preserving that "wall of sound" effect. A matter of preference I think. It works amazingly for some rock/metal though, particularly in conveying atmosphere (or more often, conveying the lack thereof). On average though, I suspect an SR225 or RS1 would be preferred by most for this genre.

I think certainly a matter of pref, and generally agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav /img/forum/go_quote.gif I feel almost exactly the same about my RS1s (having never heard RS2s). I think the HF1 really spoilt me to be honest, the difference between them and the RS1s is very subtle a lot of the time. Still both excellent headphones in their own way, i think the fastest way to describe the difference is that the HF1's sound is a little more fuzzy around the edges. One thing i will say about the RS1 vs the rest of the lower tier Grado range, is that the 'suspension' assembly (that's not the right word, but the only one i can think of) with the complete aluminium ring and square rods feels much more positive and higher quality than the plastic forks and round rods.

One thing that the RS-1s give you that the HF-1s don't have is the answer to the "I wonder what the RS-1s sound like" factor. Of course now I'm gonna have to track down some HF-1s at some point to hear for myself. Damn that supply and demand stuff, though.

I noticed that about the RS-1s assembly. Construction was solid, and I appreciated that. That mahogany seems quite delicate, I was noticing. Do people keep the wood in pristine order or are there sometimes little nicks, etc.

 

[carlosgp]

I do not find the difference between RS1 and HF1 subtle (with flats). For me it is a big one, in favour of RS1, of course

. It is faster, the highs are sweeter, mids have more body and it has more and better bass. It has much more impact too. I have read that the HF1 has more bass than RS1, but not for me. Anyhow it has a similar presentation than the HF1, but better in all the important aspects.
I place the HF1 slightly above the 325. For me it has a more natural sound, I suppose provided by the wood capsule. Unfortunately I have not been able of comparing these two headphones with the RS2s.

 

[Blackmore]

My JAZZ preferences goes to TRIO's or QUARTET's: piano, bass and drums as basics+ guitars and percussion. To tell you the true, I am not a big fan of Miles Davis or such kind of music, especially fusion. But thats my preferences only of course.
Another thing, to much focusing on JAZZ only isnt right, I guess. I am not totally out of my doubts that GS1 are the best phones for all kind of music, simply because I am not listening to all kind. But POP, some TRANCE/CLUB, JAZZ, AMBIENT and some ROCK are great with them. For me its enough and only thing I am willing to do more is upgrading my source and amp. Only this way I can be for sure, finally...

Interesting comments concerning jazz, especially. I can count the number of rock songs I have in double digits, though I wouldn't hesitate at throwing some post-1969 Miles Davis and some 70s and 80s Herbie into that genre, which I listen to plenty. We're just not talkin dominant male voices and electronic lead guitar and bass guitar.

 

[pearljam5000]

well,you are definitley the only one who has posted that GS-1000 are good for rock and metal so that' a suprise(a nice one)
everyone here seem to think that RS-1 are much better than GS-1000 for rock and metal.
have you compared GS-1000 to RS-1 with the the types of music mentioned above?
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.2gotboost /img/forum/go_quote.gif The GS 1000's are excellent for Rock and Metal.

 

[pearljam5000]

very intresting info...
thanks.
i LOVE alot of bass.
Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, the GS1k certainly have the bass for rock/metal, and the Grado guitar edge, but it's a different presentation than the rest. It seperates the layers a bit too well, which sometimes doesn't work for preserving that "wall of sound" effect. A matter of preference I think. It works amazingly for some rock/metal though, particularly in conveying atmosphere (or more often, conveying the lack thereof). On average though, I suspect an SR225 or RS1 would be preferred by most for this genre.

 

[braker218]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right so clearly it changes some aspects of the sound, and I'm not even skeptical that perhaps John tunes the drivers based on a particular pad (but which one), however I think that the rate of decay for the distances about which we are talking (on the order of mm?), given the speed of sound through air at 25°C and 1 atm, may not change the most unique qualities of the driver's output but rather their presentation. Of course there's shape of these things and such but my guess is that the differences are quite subtle.

That makes sense (Glad I'm an engineer and actually understand what you're saying) and I never really thought of it that way. I guess the best way to put it is that it does change the sound, but not as much as some people say. But that is true for most of this hobby.

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif My JAZZ preferences goes to TRIO's or QUARTET's: piano, bass and drums as basics+ guitars and percussion. To tell you the true, I am not a big fan of Miles Davis or such kind of music, especially fusion. But thats my preferences only of course. Another thing, to much focusing on JAZZ only isnt right, I guess. I am not totally out of my doubts that GS1 are the best phones for all kind of music, simply because I am not listening to all kind. But POP, some TRANCE/CLUB, JAZZ, AMBIENT and some ROCK are great with them. For me its enough and only thing I am willing to do more is upgrading my source and amp. Only this way I can be for sure, finally...

Funny, my jazz prefs are much of the same -- from piano trios to quintets, mostly late 40s - mid 60s. I'm talkin Mingus, Monk, the great Miles quintets, etc. I dig the upfront sound. In line with others I've read, I think that the large orchestral sound might excel in the GS1000s, and even an Ellington big band, perhaps, but I like my small group music to be, in the words of Akeem from Coming to America, "in the face!"

I guess if I consider the rest of my listening preferences, which include hip hop, soul, funk, and a lot of Latin American music, the GS1000s might just be too polite for most of that, for me. And thus, I secured my RS-1s cette après-midi! Thanks to all that chimed in this go-around.

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braker218 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That makes sense (Glad I'm an engineer and actually understand what you're saying) and I never really thought of it that way. I guess the best way to put it is that it does change the sound, but not as much as some people say. But that is true for most of this hobby.

Haha! Yes! Very true. I have to always remember to put my ER20s on to lower the claims by 20 dB across the board ... just keeps everything in check.

I'm a "believer" of the need to audition things for extended periods of time and then go back to something else in order to be able to tell differences in sound. And it only works in the retrograde direction. That is to say, If I listen to SR225s all week and then demo RS-1s for 10 minutes, I might pick up a few things, but more will be audible if I listen to RS-1s for a week and then go back to the lower range phones. Funny brains.

 

[geardoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....And it only works in the retrograde direction. That is to say, If I listen to SR225s all week and then demo RS-1s for 10 minutes, I might pick up a few things, but more will be audible if I listen to RS-1s for a week and then go back to the lower range phones. Funny brains.

That "retrograde direction" might be the single most important thing I've learned while emptying my wallet at head-fi. Works in almost every case... though there were a few exceptions. One of them for me was the first listen to an RS1, versus my old SR225's. The RS1 had more of something. In hindsight, it was probably the greater midrange in the RS1. Or, maybe after unloading $550 for the RS1's, they just had to sound better, no matter what

 

[F107plus5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braker218 /img/forum/go_quote.gif That makes sense (Glad I'm an engineer and actually understand what you're saying) and I never really thought of it that way. I guess the best way to put it is that it does change the sound, but not as much as some people say. But that is true for most of this hobby.

Oh great. Now I guess I gotta correct to standard day before every serious listening session.

......now I'll need to add pressure taps and thermocouples to my MS2i housings......it'll be easy since they're aluminum.

EDIT: And a simple correction factor for the HD600. I ain't gonna punch no holes in those babies!