[Avalon2060]

Hi, I'm new to Headfi but have done an awful lot of reading here recently.  I  have a pair of Fidelio X1 and a Little Dot 1+ listening with my desktop pc as a source.  Had the LD1+ for a month and yesterday I received a new WA6 (stock). I do like the performance of the LD. (good dynamics bass and clarity) decent mids.  The WA6 is breaking in with the infamous Shuagang rectifier that has been discussed repeatedly as very poor.  I can still return the LD1+ but only have a few days left, so I am in a time crunch for a decision.  I am underwhelmed with the clarity and bass weight of the WA6 so far, compared to the LD1+, but the midrange and resolution of the WA6 is already superior.  I know rolling tubes and burn in are key to the final optimization of performance of the WA6, but I only have about 3 days left if I am going to return the LD1+.  One thing I notice is the sound signature of the WA6 is rounder, softer, and rolled top and bottom compared to the LD 1+. In a quandary with only a little time.  Don't want to keep them both.

 

[kramer5150]

My .02....
 
Tubes just need time to "bloom", burn in or whatever you want to call it... they just need time to settle into a relatively steady state.  Your amp and tubes will change sonic characteristics as they age.  Sounds like both amps are brand new so you've got a multitude of variables shifting around and settling at once.  Lets not also forget coupling / filtering capacitors, and output transformers... as well as your tube rectifier.
 
Its going to take time for all these variables to find an equilibrium with each other and no doubt tube rolling can also make a difference.   I recently added some NOS Amperex / Holland tubes for my Earmax.  At first I really didn't hear much difference between them and the Telefunken tubes I have had for a long long time.  Then after a few weeks of sporadic listening something in the amperex tubes (or my head) bloomed and they are warmer/richer and slightly more closed in sounding than the telefunken.
 
I would just let it ride, having two amps to pick from is not the worst thing in the world to live with.  Tubes are not what I would consider user friendly.  They do NOT like to be power cycled repeatedly.  Generally that's a recipe for shortened tube life.  The more tubes you are power cycling in the circuit, the less "comfortable" the circuit is going to be ramping up/down/up/down.  My opinion (as a fan of both tube and solid state circuits), its nice to have a tube hybrid handy.  My millet hybrid is always on standby for those times when the DV337 and Earmax are too impractical, and my Larocco PPA is too analytically solid state sounding.
 
Good Luck though!!  You have two GREAT amps for low impedance loads... enjoy the ride.

 

[Avalon2060]

  My .02....
 
Tubes just need time to "bloom", burn in or whatever you want to call it... they just need time to settle into a relatively steady state.  Your amp and tubes will change sonic characteristics as they age.  Sounds like both amps are brand new so you've got a multitude of variables shifting around and settling at once.  Lets not also forget coupling / filtering capacitors, and output transformers... as well as your tube rectifier.
 
Its going to take time for all these variables to find an equilibrium with each other and no doubt tube rolling can also make a difference.   I recently added some NOS Amperex / Holland tubes for my Earmax.  At first I really didn't hear much difference between them and the Telefunken tubes I have had for a long long time.  Then after a few weeks of sporadic listening something in the amperex tubes (or my head) bloomed and they are warmer/richer and slightly more closed in sounding than the telefunken.
 
I would just let it ride, having two amps to pick from is not the worst thing in the world to live with.  Tubes are not what I would consider user friendly.  They do NOT like to be power cycled repeatedly.  Generally that's a recipe for shortened tube life.  The more tubes you are power cycling in the circuit, the less "comfortable" the circuit is going to be ramping up/down/up/down.  My opinion (as a fan of both tube and solid state circuits), its nice to have a tube hybrid handy.  My millet hybrid is always on standby for those times when the DV337 and Earmax are too impractical, and my Larocco PPA is too analytically solid state sounding.
 
Good Luck though!!  You have two GREAT amps for low impedance loads... enjoy the ride.

Thanks so much for the positive response, Kramer. Oddly, these amps both have 1 thing in common; both designers state they should be powered off after 8 hours run time.  So some power cycling is unavoidable. I will consider your advice.. 

 

[kramer5150]

  Thanks so much for the positive response, Kramer. Oddly, these amps both have 1 thing in common; both designers state they should be powered off after 8 hours run time.  So some power cycling is unavoidable. I will consider your advice.. 

Whoa... really?  I've never seen that before.  I wonder why they say that?  Especially the LD.  I can understand the WA6... rectifier tubes aren't cheap.  I don't think I have ever left my amps on that long though. 5-6 hours tops through my work days when I work from home.

 

[adtrance]

  Thanks so much for the positive response, Kramer. Oddly, these amps both have 1 thing in common; both designers state they should be powered off after 8 hours run time.  So some power cycling is unavoidable. I will consider your advice.. 

I think it's more of a precaution for tubes in general.  I normally run my LD 1+ for 12-14 hours a day on weekends.   
 
Vintage tube amplifiers sometimes caught fire and likely caused manufacturers to insert a caveat that you don't leave tube amps unattended for a long time.  It could also be so users wouldn't leave their tube amps on 24/7 and wonder why their tubes failed after six months.  
 
Just a theory.

 

[Avalon2060]

Your theory is plausible.

 

[politbureau]

Just came across this thread, and can def give an opinion, for what it's worth.
 
I purchased a used Little Dot 1+ from a forum member here (board rev 2.0), for $75 shipped. When I received it, I sourced a couple cheap PhillipsECG 408A tubes which are the same design (minus the gold pins) of the 'famous' Sylvania GB408As. I also swapped the Opamp for a BB OPA2107, and also tried the LT1364. Total cost for everything was $42, bringing my total to ~$120
 
I have a few cans: HD650, HD600, Phillips X2, HE-400i, Grado 325e, Custom Magnum v5 Grados in wood enclosures, V-Moda M100, Beyerdynamic T51i. With every set of 'phones, the sound was fantastic, and volume was never an issue with any of these. Noise floor was black as night, and there was zero hum.  I used a Bifrost Uber/USB and Aune T1 MK2 with custom tube and cap repalcements for testing. Microphonics were also very good to non-existent.
 
I recently picked up WA6 and a WA2 that I found on my local classifieds, both of which had been modified with expensive NOS tubes, and came with a stack of extra tubes for each. I love the look of the Woo gear and was looking for a piece of living room 'statement' equipment, one for high impedance cans, and one for low impedance. I bought both amps from the same fellow, and got a great deal - but total cost was around $1500, each piece being about 6x more expensive than the LD1+.
 
Here's the rub: I didn't like the sound of the Woo Gear. At all. The noise floors were higher, there was a slight hum on the WA6, and the WA2 was underpowered for most of my cans (though not surprisingly). The WA2 sounded more lush and warm, while the WA6 was a bit brighter and more towards neutral. After many hours A/B/Cing, I came the conclusion that I was looking for a sound that was essentially somewhere right between what they offered - which is exactly what the LD1+ has. A warm not-quite-lush tube sound that is simultaneously somewhat neutral with a hint of brightness, though never harsh.
 
I know we're not comparing apples to apples, but it blew my mind that both of these high-end-ish amps seemed subjectively AND objectively worse than the 1+.
 
Something else occurred to me after more listening. The sound of the 1+ is very close to another amp I have - the Lyr 2. I have some Aperex 6922s and La Radiotechnique ECC88s (both only lent to me, sadly) for the Lyr that sound fantastic. Unbelievably so. They better - they cost about half what the amp did. But what really gave me a wow moment - while A/Bing the Lyr 2 and 1+ using my Schiit SYS - was how similar the sound is. I'm not really an audiophile, I just know what I like. And I like the sound of these two amps. Sure, there's just plain MORE with the Lyr 2, but it's not night and day.
 
I would go so far as to say that with low impedance cans, one could comfortably get away with a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Little Dot 1+ all day long, and be happy for a very, very long time.

 

[Avalon2060]

  Just came across this thread, and can def give an opinion, for what it's worth.
 
I purchased a used Little Dot 1+ from a forum member here (board rev 2.0), for $75 shipped. When I received it, I sourced a couple cheap PhillipsECG 408A tubes which are the same design (minus the gold pins) of the 'famous' Sylvania GB408As. I also swapped the Opamp for a BB OPA2107, and also tried the LT1364. Total cost for everything was $42, bringing my total to ~$120
 
I have a few cans: HD650, HD600, Phillips X2, HE-400i, Grado 325e, Custom Magnum v5 Grados in wood enclosures, V-Moda M100, Beyerdynamic T51i. With every set of 'phones, the sound was fantastic, and volume was never an issue with any of these. Noise floor was black as night, and there was zero hum.  I used a Bifrost Uber/USB and Aune T1 MK2 with custom tube and cap repalcements for testing. Microphonics were also very good to non-existent.
 
I recently picked up WA6 and a WA2 that I found on my local classifieds, both of which had been modified with expensive NOS tubes, and came with a stack of extra tubes for each. I love the look of the Woo gear and was looking for a piece of living room 'statement' equipment, one for high impedance cans, and one for low impedance. I bought both amps from the same fellow, and got a great deal - but total cost was around $1500, each piece being about 6x more expensive than the LD1+.
 
Here's the rub: I didn't like the sound of the Woo Gear. At all. The noise floors were higher, there was a slight hum on the WA6, and the WA2 was underpowered for most of my cans (though not surprisingly). The WA2 sounded more lush and warm, while the WA6 was a bit brighter and more towards neutral. After many hours A/B/Cing, I came the conclusion that I was looking for a sound that was essentially somewhere right between what they offered - which is exactly what the LD1+ has. A warm not-quite-lush tube sound that is simultaneously somewhat neutral with a hint of brightness, though never harsh.
 
I know we're not comparing apples to apples, but it blew my mind that both of these high-end-ish amps seemed subjectively AND objectively worse than the 1+.
 
Something else occurred to me after more listening. The sound of the 1+ is very close to another amp I have - the Lyr 2. I have some Aperex 6922s and La Radiotechnique ECC88s for the Lyr that sound fantastic. Unbelievably so. They better - they cost about half what the amp did. But what really gave me a wow moment - while A/Bing the Lyr 2 and 1+ using my Schiit SYS - was how similar the sound is. I'm not really an audiophile, I just know what I like. And I like the sound of these two amps. Sure, there's just plain MORE with the Lyr 2, but it's not night and day.
 
I would go so far as to say that with low impedance cans, one could comfortably get away with a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Little Dot 1+ all day long, and be happy for a very, very long time. I know I am 

Thanks for the reply.  Regarding the WA6, I bought mine new and  there is no issue of a noise floor; it is silent, quiet as can be.  The WA6 also plays with better refinement resolution and a wider more 3 dimensional soundstage than the LD1+. It is softer and smoother than the LD1+ where the 1+ is more aggressive and less smooth, especially in the highs.  But the LD1+ is very good too.     In my experience, it comes down to whether or not what the WA6 brings to the table is worth the extra $500. It can be difficult to decide after listening to both amps. I mainly use the Fidelio X1 headphones. I use the WE 408A tubes with my LD1+, and it is an accomplished little performer.