[multibit16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd The ALPS RK27 is a very good potentiometer, especially the 10K pot. In what way exactly? You either had a very dodgy pot, a pot which wasn't grounded correctly or you possess the hearing capabilities of a bat. I have used many ALPS RK27 pots (over 30) and have never experienced noise of any kind from any of them whether they be 10K, 20K or 50K. To say that the ALPS RK27 add "grunge" and "noise" to the signal is absolute nonsense as far as I'm concerned. From my experience they are one of, if not the best, potentiometers you can use in an audio application and, as I say, if you experienced noise and grunge using the RK27 you can be sure this is not typical of the RK27 and I would suggest you either got a bad one or the "noise" was coming from somewhere else in the chain. There are also a lot of fake RK27's going around but they are pretty good fakes and are labelled "soundwell" I tried a few of them and they were also noise free...... In fact, I've never had a "noisy" potentiometer so maybe I'm just lucky or you were unlucky but to say that the ALPS is "noisy" "awful" "grungy" etc. is just plain wrong... a noisy pot usually means there's DC or insufficient grounding..... I built 7 chiarras all using RK27's and they were crystal clear. All the best. Pinkie.

Well compare the Alps against something like the Panasonic for audio, the difference is clearly audible, I'm not the only one who has heard this.
I don't have the hearing of a bat but its good enough to tell the difference between these pots.
Ok, they may sound clear enough to some but then try another better quality type then go back to the Alps

 

[dsavitsk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by multibit16 Well compare the Alps against something like the Panasonic for audio, the difference is clearly audible, I'm not the only one who has heard this.

I don't think this was Pinkie's point. I think the point is that the Alps is a good pot that does not induce noise or grunge, and indeed this is true.

 

[multibit16]

Ok, thats fair enough, mine must have been a bad one.
I'll stick with the Attenuator though, its good enough for me

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by multibit16 Well compare the Alps against something like the Panasonic for audio, the difference is clearly audible, I'm not the only one who has heard this. I don't have the hearing of a bat but its good enough to tell the difference between these pots. Ok, they may sound clear enough to some but then try another better quality type then go back to the Alps

You still haven't explained what you mean by "noise" and "grunge" ?? The RK27 is conductive plastic with "7" wipers which bear down very lightly on the tracks so the wear rate will be very slow and if one wiper fails you've still got 6.... if two wipers fail you've still got 5....... unlike some pots which only have "one" wiper.

The pot is simply a variable resistor and one 50K variable resistor will not "sound" better than another 50K variable resistor. Sure, a pot can become noisy with track wear or carbon deposits (if It's a carbon pot) clogging up the tracks but a 50K pot is a 50K pot regardless of brand.

What you get with the RK27 is 7 wipers and precision engineering with closely matched channel tolerances.... it's a damned good variable resistor. The Panasonic (or any other brand of pot) will do the same job as the RK27...... 50K through an ALPS pot will sound identical to 50K through an "XYZ" pot........ Pots don't "sound" different from one another "unless" the tolerances are poorly matched ie: 30K on LH channel and 38K on RH channel as opposed to the ideal 30 / 30 spec.

I always measure my pots before putting them into service and, from all the pots I've tried, the RK27 has the closest channel to channel matching..... time and time again the left channel closely matches the right channel across the range..... that's what you pay for with the RK27...... "precision"

You may strike it lucky and pick up an 80 pence OMEG 50K log pot which measures up well from channel to channel from 50K to OK but those instances are few and far between...... you'll find the RK27 is pretty well matched from batch to batch and that's why I'ts the favoured pot for the DIY'er and audio industry alike.

Another thing to consider...... a 10K pot is the ideal pot to use in the Chiarra.... the only reason Shaun shipped the kits with 50K pots was because he couldn't source the 10K pots at the time....... A 10K RK27 is ideal for the Chiarra.

So, in a nutshell, it doesn't matter who makes the pot....... It's all in the channel to channel matching and IMO the RK27 is pretty consistent and the engineering of the pot and the "7" wipers is far superior to any other pot I've used...... pure quality.

50K is 50K it's all in the tolerance.

Mike.

 

[multibit16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd You still haven't explained what you mean by "noise" and "grunge" ?? The RK27 is conductive plastic with "7" wipers which bear down very lightly on the tracks so the wear rate will be very slow and if one wiper fails you've still got 6.... if two wipers fail you've still got 5....... unlike some pots which only have "one" wiper. The pot is simply a variable resistor and one 50K variable resistor will not "sound" better than another 50K variable resistor. Sure, a pot can become noisy with track wear or carbon deposits (if It's a carbon pot) clogging up the tracks but a 50K pot is a 50K pot regardless of brand. What you get with the RK27 is 7 wipers and precision engineering with closely matched channel tolerances.... it's a damned good variable resistor. The Panasonic (or any other brand of pot) will do the same job as the RK27...... 50K through an ALPS pot will sound identical to 50K through an "XYZ" pot........ Pots don't "sound" different from one another "unless" the tolerances are poorly matched ie: 30K on LH channel and 38K on RH channel as opposed to the ideal 30 / 30 spec. I always measure my pots before putting them into service and, from all the pots I've tried, the RK27 has the closest channel to channel matching..... time and time again the left channel closely matches the right channel across the range..... that's what you pay for with the RK27...... "precision" You may strike it lucky and pick up an 80 pence OMEG 50K log pot which measures up well from channel to channel from 50K to OK but those instances are few and far between...... you'll find the RK27 is pretty well matched from batch to batch and that's why I'ts the favoured pot for the DIY'er and audio industry alike. Another thing to consider...... a 10K pot is the ideal pot to use in the Chiarra.... the only reason Shaun shipped the kits with 50K pots was because he couldn't source the 10K pots at the time....... A 10K RK27 is ideal for the Chiarra. So, in a nutshell, it doesn't matter who makes the pot....... It's all in the channel to channel matching and IMO the RK27 is pretty consistent and the engineering of the pot and the "7" wipers is far superior to any other pot I've used...... pure quality. 50K is 50K it's all in the tolerance. Mike.

I have 3 pots and 1 Attenuator Alps Blue,Noble,Panasonic for audio and a diy Attenuator
All are the same value (50k)
Each one was tried in my Chiarra and a modified Naim pre-amp which are used to drive my main Hi-Fi amp.
Four other people was here during the test and we all concluded the Alps blue clearly sounded the worse, compared to the others the Alps added the most colour/grunge/noise
I have no idea why, it just did.
All I know is that the Alps I have is called the Blue, there is not RK27 marked on it anywhere although looking at the case it looks identical to the one in the above picture.
Have you actually ever compared them yourself? the only reason I did was because a friend told me try it and I was very surprised at the results

 

[dsavitsk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd The pot is simply a variable resistor and one 50K variable resistor will not "sound" better than another 50K variable resistor.

I think I will disagree with this. I have built similar circuits using different brands of resistors (Kiwame, Holco, PRP, Dale, Panasonic) and there is clearly a difference in sound. There is no reason this would not be the same for variable resistors.

I personally (with a very small sampling size) prefer the sound (or lack of it) of Noble pots over the Alps, but I think the Alps pots are not far behind and are easier to work with (i.e., less prone to damage as the plastic that the Noble's legs connect to is easily meltable.) Anyhow, I also think that both of these are superior to the cheap panasonic which, while fine for some uses and a pretty good bargain, does restrict some detail from getting through.

-d

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by multibit16 All I know is that the Alps I have is called the Blue

ALPS Blue velvet is an urban myth, there is no such beast in existance what you have is an RK27 dual log.

Quote:

Originally Posted by multibit16 Have you actually ever compared them yourself?

ummm........ yes and, as I say, a variable resistor is a variable resistor...... for audio purposes you want to utilise a variable resistor (pot) which measures up well......... the RK27 does it for me every time.

Mike.

 

[multibit16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd ALPS Blue velvet is an urban myth, there is no such beast in existance what you have is an RK27 dual log. ummm........ yes and, as I say, a variable resistor is a variable resistor...... for audio purposes you want to utilise a variable resistor (pot) which measures up well......... the RK27 does it for me every time. Mike.

Ok mate, lets not argue

All I know is that me and alot of others can hear the difference in sound that components make especially the type of pot being used.
I also use specific type resistors in different parts of the circuits for example I prefer caddock in some feedback circuits and Rikens in some signal paths depending on the circuit being used.
It may sound sad but it can actually make a big difference to the end results.
I think a lot of people will agree

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by multibit16 Ok mate, lets not argue

I never argue with newbees.

Pinkie.

Feel free to waste money on bull**** "upgrades" I've given up caring.

Waste your money on "boutique" copper at your leisure.

 

[multibit16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd I never argue with newbees. Pinkie. Feel free to waste money on bull**** "upgrades" I've given up caring. Waste your money on "boutique" copper at your leisure.

What about the lump of rock inside the Chiarra

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by multibit16 What about the lump of rock inside the Chiarra

That ended up in my nose

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by multibit16 I think a lot of people will agree

On the other hand, a lot of people may disagree.

Pinkiest.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavitsk I think I will disagree with this.

Fair enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavitsk There is clearly a difference in sound.

"clearly"???? I doubt any improvement would be of that magnitude what with the law of diminishing returns and the limitation of the human ear. Sure you can detect differences in sound with capacitors but "resistors"? No way! "clearly"???

Mike.

 

[dsavitsk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd "clearly"???? I doubt any improvement would be of that magnitude what with the law of diminishing returns and the limitation of the human ear. Sure you can detect differences in sound with capacitors but "resistors"? No way! "clearly"???

Let me clarify. There is not a clear difference between every type. For instance, between Yeago and Panasonic there is not too much difference if any. Further, even when there is a difference, it is not necessarilly clear whether one is better than another. However, in some cases, I think it is pretty clear. For instance, I have a 1K resistor in the signal path of my current preamp. I tried a couple of different types, and settled on the PRP as being clearer. Also, I am on a Kiwame carbon kick these days, as I think they mellow out solid state circuits quite a bit. I also think it is dependent upon the circuit. A circuit that has just a few components it probably matters more. In one with lots of opamps and other stuff, probably not an issue.

That said, in the original debate, a while back I replaced a panasonic pot in a circuit (a Millett hybrid) with an alps blue and it helped a bit -- enough that it was woth the $20. Last night I replaced a Noble with an alps (my note about the Noble being easily damaged) and I think the Noble was the better pot soundwise. The difference is not huge -- you are right about that -- but I don't necessarilly think it was that difficult to hear either. The circuit with the alps still sounds great, though, so I don't want to suggest that someone would not be happy with it. And indeed, I have been playing with and tweaking this circuit for a few weeks now, so I have become very sensitive to small changes that would likely go unnoticed by someone else.

-d

 

[multibit16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd That ended up in my nose